I was thinking about putting a whipple charger on my car rather than a normal m90. I was wondering if anyone new anything they would like to tell me about them before i jump into it. I was just wondering anything extra great or bad or if its even not worth it.

 

It's a ton of work and nobody offers it for our engines anymore (sadly). I'm sure that Bumpin will chime in with the details on his whipple setup.

 

i know you looking to spend some chunk of $$ for them. why not just get a turbo?
x2 i'm sure bumpin will chime in on this thread.

 

What all do you want to know? I think I'm the only whipple'd 3800 on this board- so if you have any specific questions, let me know.

First off, how much money are you looking to spending modding the powertrain in total (I'm talking even in the long run)? Secondly, how much power do you want to make?

Here's the thing- I know the idea of a bigger supercharger sounds like a good idea- however, the stock M90 is actually already a pretty ideal size for stock, and mild-moderately modded setups. In order to really take advantage of the whipple, you need to already have a pretty hardcore engine build. I know, people will say its 'not required'- and honestly, it isn't- but there have been at least 4 or 5 people run a whipple on moderately modded to near stock 3800's- and the results have been terrible for the money- IMO. Sure they had power gains, but nothing like what they could've had if they would've stuck to modding with an M90 instead.

Ok, so say you are planning on doing a hardcore setup- heads, big cam, full size IC, headers, etc- then yes, the whipple can make good power (although only one car has dyno'd with those kinda mods, and he made ~530whp- I've never dyno'd mine before). However, it is a good deal easier and cheaper to just go with a turbo (and you'll make that extra 75hp or whatever that the SC takes to spin).

However, lots of people say they want a "hardcore setup"- until they see the cost. Figure about $5000 for a built engine (using a stock bottom end, but all the other mods- heads alone cost almost half that total, fueling another $1000 of that); $5000 for a built transmission (the GM racing chain alone is $1000); then figure another $4000 or so for the whipple setup. Lastly- this isn't going to hook on street tires, so you're going to need some DR's for the street, and slicks for the track with wheels to go with them. Then add a custom tune from PRJ. I mean, you're talking about $15,000 (not that a hardcore turbo setup is much cheaper, you're still starting $10k for a turbo and trans). Can you honestly justify spending $15k on a car that is worth maybe $3000? (not sure what year/mileage your car is- just averaging based on the cars on the forum)

With that said, there no longer is a "kit" made for our 3800's. The kit wbodystore sold was the Animul kit- and he's dropped off the face of the earth as far as I know. No big deal- the kit kinda sucked anyways and had lots of various inherent problems.

However, we can still piece together a "kit" based off currently available parts and some overnight parts from Japan (lol, Australia actually, and it doesn't have to come overnight). Yella Terra sells a whipple kit for the RWD 3800's over there. While we can't use the whole kit because our engine sits the wrong way- we can get pieces of it. So you'd buy a head unit from whipple (just a bare head, no snout/pulley); buy the intercooler/lower adapter from Yella Terra; buy your snout and pullies from Yella Terra; buy your TB adapter from PRJ. Then all you have to do is bolt on a 90mm TB, route your PCV and BBV tubing- and you're set.


I will say, its not the most powerful, or cost effective route to go. However, it does have perks (ie huge power with no spool time- instant, full boost)- and it is unique. That's the main reason I wanted to do one- I have one of only a few L67 swapped 5th gen montes and one of only a few whippled 3800's in the states- so the chances of me going to any show, race, etc anything and seeing a similar setup to mine is absolutely 0- and that's why I love it.

 

I've been lookin at everything from a gen v, gen III, turbo and whipple set ups. I know I will be spending atleast $10,000 no matter what i get. Everything takes alot of work and noone really thinks anything is worth it in the long run. Nothing will hook nomatter what I do. I plan on doin all my work myself so I'm hopin to save some money that route atleast everything besides a tune but, I know a few people that can do that for me. I plan on doing everything at once probably outside the car and just drop it all in at once. I will be doing a stroker kit and pretty much turning my car into a drag/street car. The money won't be a problem I'm just trying to be unique, because like bumpin said noone really has a whipple and I haven't really seen anyone with any type of real setup on a gen v mc besides bumpin so I'm just tryin to get info and get everythiing done over this summer threw winter and have it in by the spring and hopefully seeing some people that can appreciate a car like I'm trying to make.

 

The bad thing about cars in general is that you can pretty much assume losing the bulk of the money you put into them. If the car gets stolen (especially if the new parts aren't insured)- totaled, or you have to part it out for whatever reason- you only get back a fraction of what it cost.

The second problem is modding that far with a FWD car. If you add in the price of the stroker kit and engine rebuild- you're going to probably have closer to $20,000 in the car (including the price of the car itself). Just from looking at the local craigslist car ads, there are a bunch of C5 vettes for $15-20k; some LS1 camaros for about $10k; and some low mileage LS2 goats for about $13-15k.

With a few bolt ons, and decent rear tires- any of those cars would give you a pretty good run for your money on the street- and still be stock reliable, and able to be daily driven.

Honestly, that gets old pretty quick too. Its frustrating to see higher power FWD cars getting destroyed on the street by much slower RWD cars because they simply can't hook- and really, you can't daily drive it on drag radials either- at least not cost effectively.

That's most of the reason why I decided to go with a RWD conversion on mine. I don't want to worry about the weak transmissions (the 4t65's were at the max torque rating on a stock L67- even built ones have a hard time holding triple stock power); and I wanted some real traction- even on the street.

Honestly, the stroker kit is a huge waste of money. A basic, $500 stock L67 bottom end will handle the power fine, and let you make plenty of boost.

The stroker kit is $3200 for the high performance version (plus figure another $500-1000 for all the machine shop work to rebuild the engine). So that's a huge price difference, for very little power gain (actaully I followed the build of the guy who is on their site, and he was putting down terrible numbers- like 320ish whp IIRC on a 2.8" pulley with S4 ZZP S4 heads, IC, and a custom cam). So you aren't going to gain anything reliability wise, and very little power wise- definitely not worth that kind of money IMO.

Plus, their compression ratio offerings kinda suck too- 10.2 is way too high for wanting to run big boost off a whipple or turbo (although maybe not terrible for an E85 M90 setup)- and 8.2 is awfully low for a supercharged setup (I'd actually prefer the stock L67's 8.5 over that).


Since you're trying to do a unique setup- more power to you- I will say that the whipple's are kinda cursed- very very few people actually end up with a running whipple car at the end- either the project falls through due to money, or they just go turbo instead (hence why the few Animul kits out there have been circulated around so much). So you'll have virtually 0 tech support.

Definitely a lot to consider before you jump in.

 

Im confused you have rwd now?

 

I have not done the swap yet- what is holding me back right now is getting a house/garage. We recently moved across country- and we're in the process of looking for a house. I don't plan to start anything that big until I have my own garage for once.

I have begun collecting parts (I have a list of what I want, I just keep combing the various forums until I find the parts at the right price) and information (chassis measurements and such) for the swap.

I have mentioned it a few times on the various forums, but I don't usually bring it up often- just because so many people say they're going to do it and never follow through. That's not the case with me- I am going to do it once I get a garage; but I'm not going to start bragging about it until I can start a progress thread with some pics.

I'd imagine it will be end of summer before we're in a house- and probably not until Christmas time when I start actually cutting.

 

Deck the halls with parts of the Monte

FA LA LA LA LAAA LA LA LA LAAAAAA

 

damn, that is a lot to think about. but i was thinking of going turbo myself, one of two i will say two, but i dont hink the 3400 sfi can handle that, but i do plan to do other stuff before i get to the turbo, or turbos...