Cowboy,

I was actually talking to RJ about the age thing, in case you didn't see that. I think maybe you take yourself too seriously, sometimes. Don't get upset over what I said about the state police, I just know that would never fly in Ohio. They take the view of Craig, the most qualified and productive get and keep the jobs, period.I would love to see no need for programs like affirmative action, but we all know that's not going to happen in our lifetimes.

Not sure WTF you were talking about with the marriage thing.

As a matter of fact, I have seen the government "coerce" companies into doing the right thing and hire equal numbers of minorities and whites, in instances of government contracts, in particular a major road project. The company wouldn't hire minorities, so they lost a multimillion dollar contract. They also were fined and banned from even bidding on contracts for five years. They made their choice, stuck with it, and went out of business, because they were bigots and racists.
Another company that didn't have a problem doing the right thing and hired minorities and women got the contract and is still doing quite well.

 

I am a business man, in the 1980s when I was a hotshot Corporate ExVP I began setting protocol. 18-30 cost $3 31-35 cost $6 36-40 cost $9 41-45 cost $15 46-50 cost $19 51-55 cost $25 56-60 cost $28 61-65 cost $36 an hour in added expenses above salary. Unwritten law: Hire the brightest grad students and those with 3-5-years of experience. Work themand start targeting those in their 40s, and begin to make their lives a living hell. Successfully force them out by 50. Never thinking I was going to get older myself. Tell me, this is not happening! and while it is not written rule, it is a hardcore unwritten law. Cowboy... age is the BIGGEST segment in our society to be discriminated against. They simply cost too much money! They are 300-times more likely to get hurt andbecome seriously ill, thus loss of production, added cost of temp help, and increase in insurance expenses. While older workers are less likely to be late,or steal - they are still a bigger liability.

If you are above 40, I can almost gaurantee you are suddenly feeling more heat at work, and if you are above 50, I am almost willing to say the heat is real hot and steady. If you are 60, congratulations! You either work for a good company or you're into S&M and you love the beatings your taking.

 

mad... waht i was talking about was a little off topic... but what i was implying is that you cannot coerce people to do what you want them to do. you can't coerce people to be "straight" with some gay marriage amendment... i guarantee there will still be gay people. you can't coerce people into hiring minorities by passing laws requiring htem to do it. their will still be companies not abiding by that law.

this instance you are talking about... the company was put out of business by affirmative action!!!! it is not a case of success by affirmative action!!!! the job got done... what a coincidence. imagine how well it could have been done if a company that hired the most qualified employee's had been hired to do it. maybe they were racist, maybe they were not. maybe they just preferred to hire more qualified candidates. did the company that went out of business outright say "WE'RE NOT HIRING ANY MINORITIES NO MATTER HOW QUALIFIED THEY ARE!!!!"? theres no way they said that exact line.. but did they say anything that would imply this belief? if hiring minorities mean't taht this company would ahve to hire unqualified, lazy bums and fire people who they were hard working and qualified employees.. then your own story is yet anotehr example of why affirmative actions MUST STOP.

 

Well said Craig,

I find it hard to believe you actually came out and said that, but I see it constantly where I work. I worked for a Fortune 500 company until my part of the business was bought out by a smaller, specialty company. I saw what you were talking about on about a 5 year cycle, exactly as you described. After 5 years, they did it again, and then again. I'm lucky, I'm union, so they can't old age me out, (not yet, knock on wood), but they have basically destroyed the knowledge base in the salary part of the company.

 

If you are above 40, I can almost gaurantee you are suddenly feeling more heat at work, and if you are above 50, I am almost willing to say the heat is real hot and steady. If you are 60, congratulations! You either work for a good company or you're into S&M and you love the beatings your taking.


There's some true words. And it's also discrimination!!!!!

I had a supervisor that for some reason took a strong dislike to me? What I did to bring this about is beyond me? But this really isn't discrimination as it is a personality conflict. Still............. how I was being treated boardered on discrimination.

 

No it didn't quite go that way. When the company got the contract, they hired X number of new employees to do the work. NONE of those new employees were minorities or women, the good old boy system at work. The state stepped in before the job got started and investigated why no minorities were hired, the company refused to hire any, and the contract was pulled.

To assume women and minorities aren't qualified to do construction work, and that they are all lazy bums,is extremely ignorant, not to mention that 90% of the people who work in construction start out not knowing a thing about it. Just for the record, my brother started out in construction, knowing nothing about it, and worked his way up to contractor supervisor in a major construction company in just 10 years, so you're really out in left field here.

Cowboy, before you go off on another of your rants about how you know everything and nobody else has a clue, just save yourself the time, bud. I won't be responding to your nonsense anymore. It's obvious from your attitude about minorities EXACTLY where you are coming from. I'll reserve my comments for the adults here.

By the way, some of the closest friends I have in the world are minorities, and none of them are unqualified, lazy, or bums. I don't appreciate what you try to imply here.

 

did you miss the word "IF"


and once again, you pull the age card. i said it before and you acted confused...

no matter which side i take, somebody will pull the card, so i will disregard that too.

you also missed my point:

somehow you interpret my statements to be racist. you did not tell me that the company ahd to hire more people to do this job.

did you miss how many times i said "if".

why is it you only cut part of my quote to make me look like a racist then?

if you believe i'm a racist, your wrong. believe what you want though... i don't give a damn. however, when in the future you find the least qualified people doing jobs poorly and ruining the American economy... look back on this: this isn't about race, mad, this is about common sense. the most qualified person for the job. is it right for a person with a engineering degree to be turned down a job in engineering to a high school educated minority simply because the company ahd to meet a quota?

Martin Luther King said dreamed "of a country where people would be judged not by the color of their skin but by the content of the character".

we have a country that is judging a company now based on the ratio of minorities to whites in teh business.

still mad.. .you ahve refused to answer my question. is it fair to a company taht they are forced to hire a person less qualifed for a job to meet a quota?

so far all you have done is pull the age card, tell me how inexperienced i am, and yes i'm young. but no matter what side i take, that card will be pulled.... i ask you to answer my question. yes or no

 

one more thing... we really need to stop taking this discussion so seriously

we are all perfectly capable of carrying out this discussion in a civilized manner.....


i fear we are all stiring up hatred amongst our selves against each other.

Mad, I respect your opinion and your statements. Although we disagree does not make us enemys' in my mind. I hope we can still consider ourselves friends who share a common intrest in Monte Carlo's. I respect a good informed opponent in a political argument.

When we read something, it is easy to interpret the wrong way...

for example of somebody says "what were you doing last night", this can be interpreted as being a nice friendly greeting, ro somebody being mad and shouting "WHAT WERE YOU DOING LAST NIGHT!!!!"

i hope that we don't read each others comments and get a wrong impression of a person



If anyone is upset with me, then I apologize. I'm sorry if I'm interpreted the wrong way, I don't mean to offend anyone with my posts, but sometimes it seems to happen.

 

Definition of a Politcal Debate:

People debating a topic that would bore the hell out of a normal person and where none of hte participants will generally change their view concerning the topic of debate.

 

Cowboy,
I understand what you are saying. We know you arent racist and we also know you dont mean to offend anyone. It is easy to come in here and read the text and take it a certain way. We all know that you cant get 100% of a person's point by reading text, you have to hear them say that. Still, some of your comments went a little too far in my opinion and though we all have opinions we need to understand that others dont always feel the same and can take offense to them. And starting trouble with Mad was a little un called for since you knew it would start an arguement. We need to keep things like this off the forum or it will turn into a place to post personal problems between people. Still I respect your opinion and I dont feel you need to change it because of how others feel.

I also agree with whatDuane is saying about you pulling the age car Mad.
"I'll reserve my comments for the adults here."
Does that mean I dont have a right to be in this discussion? If cowboy isnt an adult, then neither am I. Just by the way you talked down to him since he is not an "adult" is discrimination. How can you critisize him by saying he is racist when you discriminate because of age? Now who is speaking nonsense?Maybe you dont see yourself as someone who discriminates because of age, just as Duane doesnt see himself as racist. Whats the difference? You guys both have opinions on the subject and obviously on each other and we need to keep those things between the two of you, and not posted on the forum.
I think this topic has stirred up enough bad feelings and I think we need to lay it to rest and I think a mod needs to step here before this discussion turns into a hate filled arguement which I already see happening.