E85
#1
11-19-2007, 11:53 AM
E85
They have a great article in Hot Rod Magazine regarding the use of E85 and it KR resistance. Works great for additional boost. 
Anyway, I've been thinking about running this full time or at least in the summer. Sincethe 3.8 isn't technically compatible - good up to E20 - I was wondering if someone could check if there were parts differences between a standard 3.9 and an E85 3.9.
I'm specifically looking for differences in the following part numbers: Fuel pump, fuel lines, fuel injectors and head gaskets.
I beleive everything else should be fine and I'll just need to give it a good tune.
Anyway, I've been thinking about running this full time or at least in the summer. Sincethe 3.8 isn't technically compatible - good up to E20 - I was wondering if someone could check if there were parts differences between a standard 3.9 and an E85 3.9.
I'm specifically looking for differences in the following part numbers: Fuel pump, fuel lines, fuel injectors and head gaskets.
I beleive everything else should be fine and I'll just need to give it a good tune.
#2
11-19-2007, 10:59 PM
RE: E85
I want to try E85 in my car but the local station that carries it around me never has it at a price that makes it worth trying...
E85: $2.69
Gas: $3.09
Diff: 13%
Date: 2007-11-09
Racine Mobile Station, 6840 Washington Ave
Some Day Maybe...
E85: $2.69
Gas: $3.09
Diff: 13%
Date: 2007-11-09
Racine Mobile Station, 6840 Washington Ave
Some Day Maybe...
#3
11-19-2007, 11:27 PM
RE: E85
it's not really worth trying. There are 2 problems in converting a car over to E85
1. E85 is much more corrosive to standard fuel system components. In order to run E85 at minimum you will need to upgrade your fuel system to handle the more corrosive fuel. Coated fuel lines, tank and special o-rings and seals are required. Further due to E85's lower rating you need to burn about 10-30% more fuel on average to achieve the same power levels this means you need to tune your computer for E85. If you wish to be able to use either regular or E85 at will you will need a fuel composition sensor and a PCM that can handle the input and adjust your fuel tables accordingly. From my research the mods necessary to do this on a non-E85 car will run between $1000 and $2000
2. Due to the need to burn more fuel to achieve the same power as you do on regular fuel the cheaper cost is mostly offset by the loss in fuel economy.
I was very interested in this mod myself before spending about a week researching it. It would take about 5-7 years before you broke even if at all.
Finally, E85 is a mis-guided scam pushed on America, the fuel is cheaper because your tax dollars heavily subsidize corn farmers. Corn is also not a very efficient plant to use for ethanol production it simply the choice for pork barrel politicians. The amount of energy required to produce a gallon of ethanol is more than you actually burnout of it. I am all for alternative fuels but I want to see some that make sense.
1. E85 is much more corrosive to standard fuel system components. In order to run E85 at minimum you will need to upgrade your fuel system to handle the more corrosive fuel. Coated fuel lines, tank and special o-rings and seals are required. Further due to E85's lower rating you need to burn about 10-30% more fuel on average to achieve the same power levels this means you need to tune your computer for E85. If you wish to be able to use either regular or E85 at will you will need a fuel composition sensor and a PCM that can handle the input and adjust your fuel tables accordingly. From my research the mods necessary to do this on a non-E85 car will run between $1000 and $2000
2. Due to the need to burn more fuel to achieve the same power as you do on regular fuel the cheaper cost is mostly offset by the loss in fuel economy.
I was very interested in this mod myself before spending about a week researching it. It would take about 5-7 years before you broke even if at all.
Finally, E85 is a mis-guided scam pushed on America, the fuel is cheaper because your tax dollars heavily subsidize corn farmers. Corn is also not a very efficient plant to use for ethanol production it simply the choice for pork barrel politicians. The amount of energy required to produce a gallon of ethanol is more than you actually burnout of it. I am all for alternative fuels but I want to see some that make sense.
#5
11-20-2007, 05:27 PM
RE: E85
The gas tank itself is already prepped and I have a tuner for the changes.
My big reason for running it is I don't want to run race gas all the time or should I say have to reprogram all the time.Most of my driving is inthelocal area so I could program the PCMfor Ethenol normally and run a nice high boost orswitch pulleys all the time and reprogram when I want to race.110 Octane costs 5.75 a gallon 45 miles away and I have access to 105 Ethenol for $2.49about 1 mile away so it would be cheaper for me just to convert in the end.
As for the politics it depends who you ask and the scope of the report. Alot of reports are and should be on flex fuel vehicles. If you convert the vehicle to E85 only (mainly) you get more power due to kicking up the compression ratio. Ethenol can produce 5% more power than gas, but it has to be tuned properly and can't be a realistic hybrid. Also alot of reports add costs for equipment but don't look at depreciation and fact that they already exist for other uses. EG - I have a truck for personal reasons, I start a business but include a brand new truck into the figures. All of a sudden my feasability study sucks and looks like it costs more. If I just factor in the truck I already own it becomes a great idea.
But back to the topic, I need to compare part numbers. I have a friend that has been running a 95 Corsica for 3 years on strict E85 from the Renew station in Oshkosh, WI and hasn't had any problems except for the fuel filter that needed to be replaced shortly after switching because it gummed up with junk in his gas tank. It runs great for the most part even in cold weather, but he hasn't tuned it or made any mods other than a K&N drop in filter. Over 60,000 miles on E85.
Oh, and yes it is the HP stand point, cost of fuel, and ability to run higher boost and not buy race gas.
My big reason for running it is I don't want to run race gas all the time or should I say have to reprogram all the time.Most of my driving is inthelocal area so I could program the PCMfor Ethenol normally and run a nice high boost orswitch pulleys all the time and reprogram when I want to race.110 Octane costs 5.75 a gallon 45 miles away and I have access to 105 Ethenol for $2.49about 1 mile away so it would be cheaper for me just to convert in the end.
As for the politics it depends who you ask and the scope of the report. Alot of reports are and should be on flex fuel vehicles. If you convert the vehicle to E85 only (mainly) you get more power due to kicking up the compression ratio. Ethenol can produce 5% more power than gas, but it has to be tuned properly and can't be a realistic hybrid. Also alot of reports add costs for equipment but don't look at depreciation and fact that they already exist for other uses. EG - I have a truck for personal reasons, I start a business but include a brand new truck into the figures. All of a sudden my feasability study sucks and looks like it costs more. If I just factor in the truck I already own it becomes a great idea.
But back to the topic, I need to compare part numbers. I have a friend that has been running a 95 Corsica for 3 years on strict E85 from the Renew station in Oshkosh, WI and hasn't had any problems except for the fuel filter that needed to be replaced shortly after switching because it gummed up with junk in his gas tank. It runs great for the most part even in cold weather, but he hasn't tuned it or made any mods other than a K&N drop in filter. Over 60,000 miles on E85.
Oh, and yes it is the HP stand point, cost of fuel, and ability to run higher boost and not buy race gas.
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