Upgrades on the way.
Thread Starter
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 32
From: Fayetteville, NC
If you're dead set on buying one- then seriously, get on the DHP PT forums or the HPT forums and start reading and understanding all the concepts. There really is a lot to learn, and its frustrating to buy a $400 piece and not be able to actually do anything productive with it for another week or two because you're so busy reading.
Thread Starter
|
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 32
From: Fayetteville, NC
If you're dead set on buying one- then seriously, get on the DHP PT forums or the HPT forums and start reading and understanding all the concepts. There really is a lot to learn, and its frustrating to buy a $400 piece and not be able to actually do anything productive with it for another week or two because you're so busy reading.
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,460
Honestly, I don't go on the HPT forums at all, and I haven't been on the DHP forums for awhile either. If you go to the DHP forums, they did have a lot of stuff stickied that was pretty helpful.
IMO the thing that helped me the most when I got started was reading an article off the DHP forums called "Jerry's Tuning Guide", try searching for that. Its pretty long, but its as close to a step by step walkthrough on how to tune as I've ever found. I literally printed the thing out, and put it in a binder so I could read follow it as I did my first tunes (now its all marked up with notes and such, but I do still bring it with).
IMO the thing that helped me the most when I got started was reading an article off the DHP forums called "Jerry's Tuning Guide", try searching for that. Its pretty long, but its as close to a step by step walkthrough on how to tune as I've ever found. I literally printed the thing out, and put it in a binder so I could read follow it as I did my first tunes (now its all marked up with notes and such, but I do still bring it with).
Thread Starter
|
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 32
From: Fayetteville, NC
Honestly, I don't go on the HPT forums at all, and I haven't been on the DHP forums for awhile either. If you go to the DHP forums, they did have a lot of stuff stickied that was pretty helpful.
IMO the thing that helped me the most when I got started was reading an article off the DHP forums called "Jerry's Tuning Guide", try searching for that. Its pretty long, but its as close to a step by step walkthrough on how to tune as I've ever found. I literally printed the thing out, and put it in a binder so I could read follow it as I did my first tunes (now its all marked up with notes and such, but I do still bring it with).
IMO the thing that helped me the most when I got started was reading an article off the DHP forums called "Jerry's Tuning Guide", try searching for that. Its pretty long, but its as close to a step by step walkthrough on how to tune as I've ever found. I literally printed the thing out, and put it in a binder so I could read follow it as I did my first tunes (now its all marked up with notes and such, but I do still bring it with).
Well i got my 3" Downpipe and Magnaflow Mufflers Installed today. I love the sound. I thought i'd "FEEL" more though. I felt a bigger gain after the CAI than the Exhaust. It almost feels slower now. The weekend is almost here so i should have everything else installed by sunday. I rented the ZZP SC pully puller and went ahead and got a modular 3.5 pulley incase the KR was out of line with the 3.4.
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 722
From: Philadelphia, PA
http://www.opentuner3800.com/guides/...20Notebook.pdf
That link should take you to the tuning notebook.
I actually printed that out a couple of months ago and used the page binder at work to make it into a book with plastic covers. Yeah, I'm a nerd like that.
http://wiki.opentuner3800.com/index.php?title=Main_Page
That's the main page, which is a tuning wiki.
-Riggs.
That link should take you to the tuning notebook.
I actually printed that out a couple of months ago and used the page binder at work to make it into a book with plastic covers. Yeah, I'm a nerd like that.
http://wiki.opentuner3800.com/index.php?title=Main_Page
That's the main page, which is a tuning wiki.
-Riggs.
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 722
From: Philadelphia, PA
I thought i'd "FEEL" more though.
Anyways, whatever low end you lost by upgrading the exhaust will be gained back easily by dropping the pulley. Be careful dropping pulley sizes with only the downpipe and cai on there though. The "chipped piston mod" isn't so great for going fast at all......
-Riggs.
Thread Starter
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 32
From: Fayetteville, NC
http://www.zzperformance.com/grand_p...les1.php?id=35
I was thinking the TB was about all i was lacking, is it really needed? Do u think it would be ok to go ahead and install the zzp pcm now? or should i wait untill the rockers and pulley get installed? Thanks so much for yours and everones advice.
Last edited by nugzo; Apr 14, 2009 at 01:19 AM.
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 722
From: Philadelphia, PA
I had typed out a whole big long response last night, but I must have accidentally deleted it. I'll try again.
Basically, nobody can say what you do/don't need to run a particular size pulley. The only way to know is to install the pulley and scan for KR.
The nice thing about the modular pulley systems then is that you can switch pulley sizes in about 5 minutes assuming you have a different pulley laying around to use.
Be wary of the vendors suggestions. While all of the W-body vendors are more or less fair and honest remember that they are vendors and are in this business to make money. That said they will not hesitate to sell you something you may not need.
One thing I've noticed is that all of the vendors recommend pulley sizes that are way too small for the mod packages that they put together. Why they do this I have no idea. Maybe they figure you'll buy more supporting mods after the initial suggestions aren't enough, maybe they know that people want to do as little as possible before dropping pulley sizes and are happy to sell as many pulleys as possible.
Anyways.....
Generally a downpipe and a cai is not enough to run a 3.4" pulley. Nobody can really say for sure though. Some cars can get away with it.
On my car, I installed a set of TOG headers with a catted downpipe and a wizair CAI and was still seeing some knock with a 3.4" pulley (with AL104's and 180* t-stat). Granted it was less than 1* and only at shifts, but it was still there.
As far as the ZZP pcm:
It is my opinion that a custom tune is much better than a canned PCM. A custom tune will be set up exactly for your car, exactly for your modifications. Also, a competent tuner should be able to tune out KR within reason of course.
Also note that although some of the W-body vendors have a great line of products, none of them is perfect. Some of the more popular vendors may have a faulty product or two.
From what I've read, ZZP's tune on their pcm's isn't so great. Some people with Monte Carlos have also had issues with the ZZP pcm's interfering with the car's security system.
That said, I would definitely do some research about what other people have had success with as far as their mods before you decide what you want to do next.
Unfortunately for this board, the Monte Carlo did not come with the supercharged engine until 2004 while some other W-bodies got the L67 as early as 1996. This means that some of the other car forums have many more people running modified L67 setups than you will find here. Those boards can be a great resource for researching what mods will actually benefit you. Some of the other boards being: clubgp.com, regalGS.org, 3800pro.com, grandprixforums.net. There are more, but I'm not familiar with all of them. Keep in mind that some of the boards have a strong bias towards one vendor or another (eg. clubgp is very pro-zzp, while 3800pro is very pro-intense).
Good luck with the modding, and keep us updated with your progress.
Don't hesitate to post questions in a thread or to send out some PM's. Everyone on there that I've PM'd with a question or two have been extremely helpful.
-Riggs.
PS. check out the thread that just got stickied entitled "General Mod plan for 3800 engines" in the intake/headers/exhaust section. It is very informative for anyone looking to start figuring out what mod path they want to go with.
https://montecarloforum.com/forum/sh...ad.php?t=10942
Basically, nobody can say what you do/don't need to run a particular size pulley. The only way to know is to install the pulley and scan for KR.
The nice thing about the modular pulley systems then is that you can switch pulley sizes in about 5 minutes assuming you have a different pulley laying around to use.
Be wary of the vendors suggestions. While all of the W-body vendors are more or less fair and honest remember that they are vendors and are in this business to make money. That said they will not hesitate to sell you something you may not need.
One thing I've noticed is that all of the vendors recommend pulley sizes that are way too small for the mod packages that they put together. Why they do this I have no idea. Maybe they figure you'll buy more supporting mods after the initial suggestions aren't enough, maybe they know that people want to do as little as possible before dropping pulley sizes and are happy to sell as many pulleys as possible.
Anyways.....
Generally a downpipe and a cai is not enough to run a 3.4" pulley. Nobody can really say for sure though. Some cars can get away with it.
On my car, I installed a set of TOG headers with a catted downpipe and a wizair CAI and was still seeing some knock with a 3.4" pulley (with AL104's and 180* t-stat). Granted it was less than 1* and only at shifts, but it was still there.
As far as the ZZP pcm:
It is my opinion that a custom tune is much better than a canned PCM. A custom tune will be set up exactly for your car, exactly for your modifications. Also, a competent tuner should be able to tune out KR within reason of course.
Also note that although some of the W-body vendors have a great line of products, none of them is perfect. Some of the more popular vendors may have a faulty product or two.
From what I've read, ZZP's tune on their pcm's isn't so great. Some people with Monte Carlos have also had issues with the ZZP pcm's interfering with the car's security system.
That said, I would definitely do some research about what other people have had success with as far as their mods before you decide what you want to do next.
Unfortunately for this board, the Monte Carlo did not come with the supercharged engine until 2004 while some other W-bodies got the L67 as early as 1996. This means that some of the other car forums have many more people running modified L67 setups than you will find here. Those boards can be a great resource for researching what mods will actually benefit you. Some of the other boards being: clubgp.com, regalGS.org, 3800pro.com, grandprixforums.net. There are more, but I'm not familiar with all of them. Keep in mind that some of the boards have a strong bias towards one vendor or another (eg. clubgp is very pro-zzp, while 3800pro is very pro-intense).
Good luck with the modding, and keep us updated with your progress.
Don't hesitate to post questions in a thread or to send out some PM's. Everyone on there that I've PM'd with a question or two have been extremely helpful.
-Riggs.
PS. check out the thread that just got stickied entitled "General Mod plan for 3800 engines" in the intake/headers/exhaust section. It is very informative for anyone looking to start figuring out what mod path they want to go with.
https://montecarloforum.com/forum/sh...ad.php?t=10942
Last edited by biggriggs; Apr 14, 2009 at 02:17 PM.
Thread Starter
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 32
From: Fayetteville, NC
Thanks biggriggs for the detailed response. Very helpful information from both u and bumpin96.
Once i get everything installed, except the pulley, i'll scan for KR. If i'm at 0 i'll throw the 3.4 on and see what happens. If i get some KR i'll have the 3.5 to switch to. It's modular so it should be easy enough. After everything is on i'll get it tuned. I've researched a few places in nearby cities and found a few shops that can do it. The best place is the furthest away though. Always happens like that for me. Pricing from the 2 shops who responded to me were $250 for a street tune and $400 for a dyno tune. I'll probably drive to Moorseville and get the dyno tune. Mario Andretti was pleased with there work ..... http://www.pcmforless.com/ Cant be that bad.
I'll geta programmer for myself in the next few months. I'd like a pro to do it the first time. When i get my own programmer, will i be able to image or copy all the settings from the tuned PCM before i experiment? Oh yeah i went ahead and installed the ZZP PCM and the car feels sgnificantly better. My mechanic will be back friday. Now he says he'll be tired and want to chill the weekend. He said we can do it monday. I cant wait til Monday!!!! lol
Once i get everything installed, except the pulley, i'll scan for KR. If i'm at 0 i'll throw the 3.4 on and see what happens. If i get some KR i'll have the 3.5 to switch to. It's modular so it should be easy enough. After everything is on i'll get it tuned. I've researched a few places in nearby cities and found a few shops that can do it. The best place is the furthest away though. Always happens like that for me. Pricing from the 2 shops who responded to me were $250 for a street tune and $400 for a dyno tune. I'll probably drive to Moorseville and get the dyno tune. Mario Andretti was pleased with there work ..... http://www.pcmforless.com/ Cant be that bad.
I'll geta programmer for myself in the next few months. I'd like a pro to do it the first time. When i get my own programmer, will i be able to image or copy all the settings from the tuned PCM before i experiment? Oh yeah i went ahead and installed the ZZP PCM and the car feels sgnificantly better. My mechanic will be back friday. Now he says he'll be tired and want to chill the weekend. He said we can do it monday. I cant wait til Monday!!!! lol
Last edited by nugzo; Apr 14, 2009 at 09:57 PM.
