Yes, but lots of normal people install headers just fine on various Wbodys, its not THAT crazy. Plus, this guy says he's a good mechanic with a "lift, torches, welder, etc"- I think if all that is true, then he's more than competent to install a set of headers. I didn't have ANY of that (or even air tools) when I did my monte project.

As far as the problems you had-
-Hitting the fans; with all the people that have headers on 6th gens, I'm surprised this isn't a well documented issue. Maybe a different brand of headers would fit without hitting, or maybe GP fans would work and not hit since they don't have the issue?

-PS line; same thing- I'm surprised they have different PS line routing between the GP and monte (and that I haven't seen this mentioned before); regardless it sounded like an easy & free fix.

-O2 sensor; thats a brand specific problem- all the header brands seem to have their own location. Worst case you could just have a bung welded in in a better spot before you put them on.

-Trans dipstick; totally common- bend it for free or buy a flexible Lokar ahead of time.

As I said before, I'm just shocked that if these issues happen with all 6th gen montes with headers (the fans and PS line) that no one has posted about it. A relatively small number of people have headers on 5th gens- and the clearance issues seem well documented.

I'm confused- it hit the compressor or condenser? I don't see how it would hit the compressor, since they're both bolted to the engine. Honestly, the only ones I've done are on GP's- but I don't ever remember having it crazy close to the compressor.

Pic of the stock setup:



There has to be almost a 1" gap between the stock manifold and compressor, and the PLOG isn't drastically larger than the stock manifold.

Then you say its crazy close to the condenser too? I'm really confused by that:



The condenser sits in front of the radiator doesn't it? I guess I've never really looked at that part of a 6th gen, but mine sat in front on my 5th gen. Also, I figure you'd hit the fans way before you'd hit that, even if it was in the back.

Are you sure this isn't a Regal specific problem? I tried searching here, CGP, 3800pro, mymonte- and couldn't come up with any posts about the PLOG hitting any AC parts (granted I didn't spend much time looking)

You didn't read what I typed. My argument is that my opinion is that a PLOG will give you easily all the gains of a set of PEM's if not more power- for less money, and half the install. My other point is that for about the same price as PEM's + DP- headers will provide measurably more power. I NEVER said PEM's wouldn't give a gain did I?

I said obviously any kind of porting will usually give you a gain- but porting can't touch the worst part of the stock front manifold. I said that you giving a track time, and that you were able to pulley down isn't really pertinent because A) there are too many variables and B) there is no way to directly compare it to a PLOG or header setup, mostly because of A.


I just think there is a reason that if you post up PEMs vs PLOG vs headers on some of the major 3800 sites- that people seem to generally recommend a PLOG/DP or headers.

 

Are you talking about ClubGP and 3800Pro? I hate to say it, but 3800Pro is all but dead and ClubGP has been taken over by young ricers who repeat the same stuff over and over. I try to contribute on ClubGP as much as I can, but for the most part it's pretty silly.

Regarding compressor v condenser: I meant compressor, not condenser...if I wrote condenser it was a typo. The PLOG is alot fatter than the stock manifold- they're also not always "true" (as I mentioned, QC on the PLOG has been retardedly bad) and in my case the #1 cylinder primary was resting against the compressor. I never thought to clearance check it until the A/C stopped working.

Besides the "problems" I had installing my headers, the process is just a pain in the *** period. Even if it had gone 100% smoothly, it still would've been a decent amount of work and not worth it on a mild setup. Like I said, your version of pain in the *** is a bit skewed.

Let's me just sum up my opinion on exhaust manifold options for 3.8L Montes before we drag this thread out too far.



OPTION #1: PEMs
Pros: Installing a front PEM is a definite upgrade over the stock front manifold and will provide for an improvement in cylinder exhausting. It'll let you pulley down (when combined with other mods) and installs very easily. You can find them used for cheap. No issues with cracking or leaking as with the PLOG. No issues with A/C.

Cons: Does not exhaust as well as a PLOG or headers. Will restrict you to a more basic build. Cost new is relatively high. Rear PEM is basically worthless, as the stock rear manifold flows pretty damn well.

OPTION #2: PLOG
Pros: Installing a PLOG is just as simple as installing a front PEM. The PLOG flows better than even the most ported PEM will and gains are usually substantial when combined with other effective mods. There are some pretty radical builds (cam'd/GEN V/IC) using a PLOG/3" DP set up. At that level, a PEM setup is going to be hard pressed to exhaust enough. The PLOG is also fairly cheap to pickup.

Cons: Known QC issues. Known issues with cracked welds around primary to flange mating surface and leaks. Buyers have received PLOGs that don't fit due to mishaped flanges and out of spec primaries. Possible issues contacting A/C compressor and causing it to fail. Does not flow as well as headers on big builds.

OPTION #3: HEADERS
Pros: Absolutely the best performing option for exhausting your cylinders. Will support radical builds at high boost levels/extreme air flows mods. Gains are substantial when combined with other effective mods. Cost has come down considerably over the years as well, and an effective set of headers can be had for near the cost of a PEM or PLOG setup (when you factor in the cost of a 3" downpipe with the PEM or PLOG).

Cons: A definite pain in the *** to install (unless your Bumpin ). Will require several hours labor at the minimum, if you're a good mechanic and have good tools at your hands, as opposed to an hour/hour and half for a PEM/PLOG install. May have potential post-install issues that require additional planning/work as well.




^One gearhead's opinion only (based on personal experiences- I've done all three setups on personal vehicles)- take it for what you will.

 

At this point we ordered a front PEM only at a decent price. Since it will allow us to run a 3.4 pulley (with the rockers), its a place to start and also gives us extra money to buy the rockers and pulley. If the plog was available new now I would have bought that instead, but since there not available yet and probably not anytime soon and I want to get this to the track before the end of the season with the 3.4 set-up, we got the PEM

If I get some extra cash over the winter or the plog becomes available again, then we'll either attempt headers or just slap on a plog and see what happens.

Thank you everyone for all the information, it really answered a lot of questions.