I'm not getting into this argument, but the fact is that there are a lot of people that do mod their street car for power - IIRC its a billion+ $ industry. They dont necessarily all street race, some just enjoy a spirited rip on an onramp up to the speed limit sometimes.

If you're content with the stock 200hp and have zero desire for more- just know that the vast majority of people doing E85 swaps as part of a mod plan don't have your mindset. Therefore the blanket statement that its bad for all street cars isn't accurate for everyone.

Look at all of the engine mod threads we have just on this board alone - and yet we don't have a single race car on here, every thread I've seen has been a car with plates.

Here's an example of dyno charts showing a power gain on E85 vs gas and race gas with literally no other changes:

The real benefit of course is from the added octane allowing more boost (or compression, but that's obviously much harder to change) though which is where it shines. Its commonly accepted that E85 octane is around 105. Thats significantly more than 100 unleaded (which is generally the highest octane unleaded race gas you can get at a pump) and light years ahead of 91/93 premium fuel that is a better apples to apples comparison for price / availability.

As you know, more octane means you can run more boost and thus make more power before running into knock limitations. Adding literally +10 octane points doesn't just mean adding another psi or two, its a an enormous improvement in how much boost you can run - which results in equally substantial power gains.

To say it again - there are areas where E85 is more than 30% cheaper than pump gas due to local subsidies. So even for a stock NA flex fuel car that doesn't care about power - there are areas where it is cheaper to run. I literally did this myself in my 08 Impala.

AFR is only one piece of info needed to make that determination. Cost of E85 and 87 is also required and varies greatly by area.

Power. Like i said. Switch to E85, add boost. Make more power. Its not complicated.


100% wrong. Boost has a similar impact on power / octane needs. Running higher octane (such as with E85) allows you to run loads more boost. This isn't make believe stuff - I've personally done it. Used to run 93 on my monte and now run E85 with a much smaller pulley and zero knock.

No doubt compression is ONE way to take advantage of it, but its the least convenient IMO. If someone on flex fuel can't find E85 one week for some reason, they can just turn the **** on the boost controller down (or slap on a bigger pulley) and be perfectly fine still doing WOT rips on pump gas. Can't do that with astronomical compression.

What are you talking about? If you don't believe me, spend 5 minutes on Google looking at boosted street cars switching to E85. This isn't something I just made up... people have been doing this for 2 decades now.

 

Have fun.
Does E85 shorten engine life?
Ethanol has a corrosive action on fuel-system components, magnesium, aluminium and rubber. Running E85 on older model engines without tuning and replacing some components will ruin the engine in short time. Replacing fuel hoses, fuel pumps, gaskets, seals, fuel filters, fuel injectors, throttle bodies, etc.

How long can E85 sit in injectors?
You also don't want high concentration of E85 sitting in your fuel lines / teed up in your injectors it will corrode / clog them. I recommend not letting sit for more than a week.

Running something primarily made for racing, brings on many problems.

I just don't believe it is a wise choice for street use. And when gas was $2 and E-85 was $1.50 I tried a few tanks in my 07 Impala and cost wise it was still cheaper to run the unleaded because of the terrible fuel economy of E-85.

 

How would it? I've personally never seen any research paper comparing engine longevity on e85 vs gas for normal use. I just don't see the mechanism for it causing catastrophic engine damage on its own.

On modified engines- sure. It makes more power via more boost. More power = more stress on components = more chance for breakage. But IMO this isn't E85s fault, the person could get the same power gain from a big nitrous shot on pump gas and blow the engine up that way.

Of course you have to tune it, lol (or do an injector swap to a 30% larger injector as the L67 modders do). You cant just dump in a totally different fuel with a different stoich ratio and hope for the best.

I agree with your concern of fuel system on REALLY old cars (4th gen and older montes for this board). But newer cars were designed to run the current ethanol blends of standard pump gas (generally up to E10) so the components have to be ethanol compatible from the factory.

There's no need to change any of that stuff out on a modern car for ethanol compatibility and people have been running E85 in w bodies since at least the early 2000s. I don't blame your skepticism - lots of people had the exact same opinion 20 years ago when E85 started becoming a big thing. It just didn't pan out to be the big catastrophe it was worried it could be (even on the steel tank cars before they switched to plastic).

Keep in mind, this isn't pure methanol we're talking about. It's at most 85% ethanol (and often closer to 50% during winter months in most areas). When used in a modern car designed for current ethanol blends, thats just not a major issue. Honestly even pure gas shouldn't be allowed to sit stagnant for long periods either.

We had our 08 Imapla for probably 5 or 6 years and I never once drained the fuel rail nor did I ever have an injector / pump failure. Plenty of evidence out there from the huge number of flex fuel cars that its just not a big problem like you suggest.

To more directly answer your question, its been sitting in the rail in my monte for almost 2.5 months at this point and has done that several times before. Is it causing significant damage- who knows, but this isn't uncommon for me to do and Ive been on these injectors for probably 5 years now. Being a rarely driven weekend car, it sits more than it drives. But ive not seen any issues of concern on the wideband when I do take it out. I also top up with fresh E85 when I do take it out.

Since you're a stickler for evidence- please substantiate that claim. Id be willing to bet that FAR more E85 is consumed from gas station pumps than is sold / used on the racing side. Id bet that even holds true if you throw in the other blends of E - 98 and 100 on the racing side.

This is literally street car fuel and has been used in that capacity for decades.

I never disagreed with your situation (or said that its the best choice for everyone). I agree, in your case it doesn't make sense.

But there are plenty of people out there (with a better e85 vs gas price ratio or who actually care about power on their boosted street car) that it does make sense for.

 

Seems like a lot of wasted money to cruise around Sonic. To each their own.

 

If you mean modding cars in general, then I completely agree. Car enthusiasts spend absurd amounts of money just for a subjectively better way of accomplishing the same task that could be done with a couple thousand dollar beater (or a bus pass in a major metro). Best part is in the end virtually all of the money spent goes down the toilet and you're lucky to get some fraction of each dollar you spent when you sell.

It would certianly be much smarter to put that money into investments instead. But at the end of the day, everyone needs a hobby / something to look forward to when they leave their 9-5. Nice houses, vacations, boats, etc etc are all the same waste on paper - but ultimately that's what makes life fun.

 

If I told you how much I spent on NHRA racing you would have good laugh, or cry. But early on, when I was 22 or so, I had a 69 Z/28 for a while. Then I realized that 99% of the time I was doing nothing but riding around wasting money. And if I broke it I had no other means to get anywhere. So I got my first race car, and a beater to drive through the week. If the race car broke, so be it. I could wait a week or two to get back on the track. So it's hard to sit back and watch people just throw money away, but as you say, we all need a hobby, and even these guys with jacked up trucks that have never been off-road get some charge out of looking just like another jacked up truck. These guys are probably spending less on their cars than I spent on my motors. But again for the street, I see no purpose, unless they are doing cone racing at a parking lot. I spent far more on my MC than it will ever be worth, and did things hardly anyone would care about, like sourcing OEM parts to keep it factory. But I know it's a rare car, even if most do not. They go gaga over DE cars, etc. but mine is just a regular MC. What most don't realize is the 2005 SS Supercharged had 17s, and the FE4 Police suspension. So I thought it would be neat to have the last year made, and then bought my 06 LTZ, of which they only made one year. And again, few care. But I love them.