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Intake Build: Novi Paxton Migration

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  #51  
Old 06-27-2022, 04:35 PM
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Small updates....
As mentioned, drove the car a week ago to the W-Body meet in MI (3.5 hour ride one way) and had an oil leak. This weekend, I drove it to the GM Nationals in Carlisle PA (about a 5 hour ride). No oil leak!

The official cause was trying to be different. I got that "fancy" valve cover breather that used a check ball and somewhere I read a claim "leave your factory PCV system alone, this will relieve excess pressure but NOT such in unmetered air". I plan to find that and write the company and tell them that is WRONG! I disabled the PCV system, put a normal breather on the back head. No more issue.

So only things let to my knowledge are:
1. - Dyno tune (I have an appointment with a local shop that saw the car in 2017, they cannot get me in until this October)
2. - During winter, remove the charge pipe, have it sand blasted and powder coated (I want to go gloss black)
3. - Looks like the spacer for the idler pulley that helps wrap the super charger pulley has seen better days. I want to talk to a friend about some new ideas for that
 
  #52  
Old 04-12-2023, 08:06 PM
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Small update.
Mid-May I have an appointment to get the Novi-powered Monte on a dyno and professionally tuned. And I had a couple issues that required the services of a machine shop:
- I have a 3.75" drive pulley. I am deciding to push just a hair further. I now have a fresh aluminum 3.5" drive pulley. The one pick shows both sized pulleys. Side note, don't ask me how much boost it is putting out, I have zero clue. I do know another owner of a Novi setup years ago had a 3.4" pulley.
- This setup requires an extra idler pulley. It came with an aluminum spacer/mount that has seen better days. The part of it that mounts the bracket looks like it has been pounded with a hammer. I had it shimmed with two hardened washers. But it was still twisting and the pulley sat at an angle (I have NO idea how I never had a belt problem). Well, a new spacer has been machined! I initially wanted stainless steel. I am told the metal used is a harder metal than stainless. SO should be an end to the issue. It is also made longer by those two washer lengths (he said if I need it shaved down, it's easy to do).
- Between the bolt head and the idler pulley, I used 2 large stainless washers for thickness and one smaller hardened washer. The hardened washer prevented the stainless ones from bending as things were tightened and being smaller, it ensured the pulley was properly mounted (nothing was restricting the bearings). It both looked good AND if the bearings cam apart, the larger washers protected the pulley from possibly flying free. Well, now I have one custom washer.
- And on the back side of the mounting, I now have a custom thick washer. Since the Novi jackshaft assembly has been on multiple cars, the mounting point has seen some better days. This is to help ensure no mounting issues.

I just picked these up during my lunch break today. I am super excited! I hope to get a chance this weekend to tinker with this stuff. It's time to get things moving again!








 
  #53  
Old 04-13-2023, 08:39 AM
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Originally Posted by The_Maniac
- I have a 3.75" drive pulley. I am deciding to push just a hair further. I now have a fresh aluminum 3.5" drive pulley. The one pick shows both sized pulleys. Side note, don't ask me how much boost it is putting out, I have zero clue. I do know another owner of a Novi setup years ago had a 3.4" pulley.
Just out of curiosity, how will the rpm of the blower with the new pulley compare to the max rpm of the blower at red line? Just curious how hard these setups spin the blowers.

Is the cog side 1:1?
 
  #54  
Old 04-13-2023, 09:28 PM
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Originally Posted by bumpin96monte
Just out of curiosity, how will the rpm of the blower with the new pulley compare to the max rpm of the blower at red line? Just curious how hard these setups spin the blowers.

Is the cog side 1:1?
So being totally honest, not 100% sure on any of it. On the cog side, I believe both cogs are equal size (f not, they are darn close). As for the accessory pulley size, I am not sure how small I can go before an real issues. Knowing that a long lost member Zipper ran with a 3.4" pulley and I am making an assumption similar or identical cog situation, I am speculating that I am not over driving the Novi and should be fine. But, all that being said, I ultimately foresee this as the final pulley drop. When I got everything the Novi was running on a 4" pulley and I dropped to 3.75" (being conservative) and that seems to be fine and I am dropping to 3.5" with the assumption "all should be good".
What I don't have that Zipper did is a cam. The car will see a dyno mid-May. My concerns are that I hope the factory fuel pump will keep up and that I am not pushing to where I should leverage a cam. For what I am up to (just more fun, but with a line), I really don't want to go much deeper into the rabbit hole.
 
  #55  
Old 04-13-2023, 10:35 PM
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I was just curious. I put the smallest csc they offered on my c6 (I got it for dirt cheap from someone upgrading the head unit) and started going down the slippery slope of pullies assuming they were as tolerant as the Eaton blowers to over spinning to the moon. Got into it more and saw how many people were tearing up any of the non-race blowers by going over (and in some cases only by a couple thousand rpm). So that ultimately drove my pulley stopping point as its just a couple hundred rpm over max right before it kisses the limiter. So I just make a conscious effort to shift it a hair short (until it blows the tires off, lol).

Seeing your setup just made me wonder how much headroom was left on these kits. I figured probably quite a bit, but Ive never really known much about them.


For your fuel pump, do you have a rewire kit (bigger gauge) or a BAP? That could buy you a little more headroom if needed.
 

Last edited by bumpin96monte; 04-13-2023 at 10:38 PM.
  #56  
Old 04-13-2023, 11:20 PM
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Your observations and questions are all good. In one hand I might be a bit foolish and in the other, I am a little behind on a previous owner of one of these. Give how well the car ran last summer without a full dyno tune, I am guessing I am still within a good range on the Novi.

As for the fuel system, bone stock. So stock, it is ALL still factory. I have read the claims about the fuel pump re-wire. I never followed up to see if they are actually true to offering the benefits they claim. I may have heard of it (or may not), what is a BAP?
 
  #57  
Old 04-14-2023, 10:11 AM
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Originally Posted by The_Maniac
Your observations and questions are all good. In one hand I might be a bit foolish and in the other, I am a little behind on a previous owner of one of these. Give how well the car ran last summer without a full dyno tune, I am guessing I am still within a good range on the Novi.
I'm sure you're right. I doubt they were pushed anywhere near the limit with the original pulley they shipped with.

As for the fuel system, bone stock. So stock, it is ALL still factory. I have read the claims about the fuel pump re-wire. I never followed up to see if they are actually true to offering the benefits they claim.
The thought behind it is just to keep voltage at the pump as close to system level as possible. Fuel pump output is dependent on voltage, so the thought is to increase the wire gauge to maximize voltage under load.

TBH, its far more important on aftermarket pumps. Swapping to a bigger pump that flows 50%, 100% more on stock wiring is sure to be running at notably reduced voltage as the wiring wasn't spec'd for that pump / current draw.

I may have heard of it (or may not), what is a BAP?
Kenne Bell boost a pump. I think this is an ideal part for your situation if you find that your pump isn't quite keeping up on the upper end of the rpm range.

It takes the concept of the rewire to a whole other level - by going above system voltage. They maintain standard voltage while running normally, but for boosted applications, they use a hobbs switch to engage the higher voltage coils at a set psi level. I believe they've got options for max voltage of like 17 or 21 volts, which has a huge impact on fuel flow.

Certainly its harder on the pump, but its engaged for such a short time while you're in boost that it doesn't really seem to have an impact on longevity.

I run one on my c6 because a pump swap is such a pain. Its got 2 tanks with a connecting hose going over the transmission / rear end. One of the popular aftermarket pump kits just has you cut a hole in the bottom of one tank for the new pump pickup (which I'm not at all excited about doing as it seems like a real hack job way of doing it).

But ive had the BAP on there with the stock pump for probably 5 years now with 0 issues.
 

Last edited by bumpin96monte; 04-14-2023 at 10:15 AM.
  #58  
Old 04-14-2023, 01:08 PM
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Thanks for the info about a BAP. I have heard of the concept but unfamiliar with anyone adding one. Good info if I need it (which I am doubting I will, or I hope I won't).

As for the Vette and cutting a hole in the gas tank, I get the difficulty to get to the pump.... But yeah, I am not a fan of that idea for so many reasons! Heck 82-02 Camaro/Firebird guys debate about cutting an access hatch in the body to get to the fuel pump. That is bad enough. I can imagine the debates about cutting the tank!
 
  #59  
Old 04-15-2023, 06:03 PM
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Originally Posted by bumpin96monte
I'm sure you're right. I doubt they were pushed anywhere near the limit with the original pulley they shipped with.



The thought behind it is just to keep voltage at the pump as close to system level as possible. Fuel pump output is dependent on voltage, so the thought is to increase the wire gauge to maximize voltage under load.

TBH, its far more important on aftermarket pumps. Swapping to a bigger pump that flows 50%, 100% more on stock wiring is sure to be running at notably reduced voltage as the wiring wasn't spec'd for that pump / current draw.



Kenne Bell boost a pump. I think this is an ideal part for your situation if you find that your pump isn't quite keeping up on the upper end of the rpm range.

It takes the concept of the rewire to a whole other level - by going above system voltage. They maintain standard voltage while running normally, but for boosted applications, they use a hobbs switch to engage the higher voltage coils at a set psi level. I believe they've got options for max voltage of like 17 or 21 volts, which has a huge impact on fuel flow.

Certainly its harder on the pump, but its engaged for such a short time while you're in boost that it doesn't really seem to have an impact on longevity.

I run one on my c6 because a pump swap is such a pain. Its got 2 tanks with a connecting hose going over the transmission / rear end. One of the popular aftermarket pump kits just has you cut a hole in the bottom of one tank for the new pump pickup (which I'm not at all excited about doing as it seems like a real hack job way of doing it).

But ive had the BAP on there with the stock pump for probably 5 years now with 0 issues.
I have done a few of the Fore in tank set ups, if you decide to go that route, get all new plastic tubes in each tank and the new corrugated tube that goes between them. Seems like at some point they updated them to be a bit shorter and it is a life saver.

Also @The_Maniac please upgrade the pump, they aren't bad to do and fuel systems aren't a great place to skip on. A 255-300 lph pump will drop in and a rewire will take an hour or 2. New fused 12 or 10 gauge wire going back, then just run the relay in the trunk.
 
  #60  
Old 04-15-2023, 10:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Enzo354
I have done a few of the Fore in tank set ups, if you decide to go that route, get all new plastic tubes in each tank and the new corrugated tube that goes between them. Seems like at some point they updated them to be a bit shorter and it is a life saver.
Im trying to avoid a pump at the moment. Thats really the main reason I haven't went flex fuel as it'll likely force me to do something about the pump.

I'd like to see how far I can get on race gas / BAP + meth. Its pretty light on meth right now (as the race gas is doing most of the octane work), so I've got quite a bit I can still crank it up if needed. Honestly any more mods are quite a ways off at this point anyways - the blower is already maxed on rpm, so the next step is either a cam or a blower swap - neither of which is cheap.
 


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