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#21

01-06-2010, 06:56 PM

bumpin96monte

Join Date: Feb 2008

Posts: 5,972

Quote:

don't just buy ANY headers!

The nice thing about the 3800 market is there are so few actual designs- all of the generic ebay companies are knockoffs of either the SLP or pacesetter design, so fitment as far as running into stuff usually isn't too bad (although I do remember a thread on clubgp about ones like these running into something, I forget what though).

Quote:

I suspect you'll have to take the motor mount bolt loose, probably jack up on the oil pan or something to raise the engine up..

You'll definitely have to take out both of the upper mounts so you have extra play to get the back on- but thats no big deal really. You don't have to raise the engine though- its just a little tough wrestling the rear down into its area, but the rest drops right in.

Quote:

there's the chance you could break a bolt off and have ot pull the cylinder head to get it out.... and exhaust is alot of heat, so then you may have trouble taking the collectors loose,

Definitely get a can of PB blaster and start hitting all the bolts a day or so before. I've not ever had problems with the bolts holding the manifolds to the heads, but the crossover bolts can be a pain.

#22

01-06-2010, 07:15 PM

biggriggs

Join Date: Aug 2008

Location: Philadelphia, PA

Posts: 722

From a thread about one of the pacesetter knockoffs, from a grand prix forum.
Just to give you an idea of what may need to be done to get them to work.

Quote:

Well there finally in. Yes they suffer from most of the same shortcoming's as pacesetters. And the biggest problem was the crossover pipe did not fit at all. It appears that when they were being built, the 2 piece crossover was orientated wrong when they welded it. I had to cut the crossover apart at that weld, turn it a little, and reweld it. Also,

The bottom of the primary flange needs to be ground down to clear head studs, just like pacesetters.

The front primary flange had egr provisions?? That needs to be cut off. Otherwise it can't even be bolted on, it hit's the water pump.

The rear Y section still fit's loose as sheet, just like pacesetters.

You will either need to use your original bolts or buy some to bolt them to the heads, nothing included.

If for some reason you want to clamp the Y section, you need to buy clamps, nothing included.

O.K. Here are the improvement's:

Flanges are thicker, the 3 bolt flange on the bottom was twice as thick as the pacesetters. All other flanges were thicker also.

Welds are much nicer then pacesetters, all internal welds were deburred around any flow paths.

Final o2 sensor placement allows more floor clearance.

More clearance around the power steering lines, I can put my entire hand inbetween the headers and the lines.

Crossover bolt's are longer then pacesetters, with larger heads and flanged nut's.

Gasket's supplied can actually be used. They are a steel shim type covered in grafite.

Downpipe is Identical to pacesetters, so you can use the pacesetter downpipe if you allready have it welded in place.

I was still able to weld all 3 rear pieces and install/remove without any trouble.

Plenty of clearance around the trans dipstick tube.

Did I mention there really shiny!!

I think that's it. Yes all pipe sizes are the same as pacesetters, 1.750" primarys, 2.500" crossover, 3.000" downpipe.

In conclusion, If you expect these to bolt right in, then bitch when they don't, don't buy these. If your not afraid to do some grinding and welding, I think you'll like these for the price.

I'll add some pics later.

Not that all of the pacesetter knockoffs are the same exact thing, but these are some issues that aren't uncommon with the ebay headers.

-Riggs.

#23

01-06-2010, 07:22 PM

Cowboy6622

Fallen to the Dark Side - Resident Ford Man

Join Date: Jun 2007

Posts: 9,901

It could be that when a set of headers goes through quality control and something is off, they sell it to these guys who then sell it on eBay, and it's the Pacesetter or SS product, but it didn't quite meet the quality control and thus was wholesaled out to these guys...

#24

01-07-2010, 03:43 PM

biggriggs

Join Date: Aug 2008

Location: Philadelphia, PA

Posts: 722

Quote:

The ebay headers are usually a stainless steel, and use slightly different (in some cases much sturdier) flanges and pipe.
The main problem in the quote that I linked is that they had flipped the crossover the wrong way when it was welded.

Part of the reason that they can be made/sold so much cheaper is that these companies didn't actually do any design, r&d,advertising, etc.
That coupled with the fact that they're made overseas (not to say that pacesetters aren't), allows them to use better materials but sell them for cheaper.

So, I doubt that any of the ebay headers are actual pacesetters that didn't meet qc standards, but considering that very similar ebay headers were selling for over a $100 more a year ago is probably a reflection of one knockoff brand unloading a faulty product that they couldn't move onto another ebay company.

On a side note, when is someone going to offer a cheap stainless knockoff of the zzp headers?
I'd pay $300 for a brand new set of those