General Monte Carlo Talk Talk about the Monte Carlo. Does not have to be your Monte. Can include pics and games.

Info: Oil, oil, oil

  #1  
Old 03-23-2019, 10:19 PM
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Unhappy Oil, oil, oil

I have noticed in the last 2 or 3 years that the composition of motor oil available has drastically changed, and it also changed somewhat during the 3 or 4 years prior to that.
In addition to that, I've noticed on forums a lot of premature engine failures where rod bearings are worn out !
I've been running 20w-50 Synthetic the last few years but you can't hardly find that anymore. Everything is 0W, 5W, 10W, that might work in Minnesota, but in Florida that is too thin. Yes this is a Monte Carlo forum, and yes I have one that I dont drive. I have been driving Grand Cherokee's for many years and on my 3rd one. But my issue here is OIL !
In my 85, it had a lot of miles on it when I got it, the durable 4.0, it was pushing 200k when I got it, well pass 300k when I lost it. I had been running straight 40w in it the whole time, no problems, generally wouldn't need to add any oil, bought tires from Tire Kingdom, asked them do oil change and to use Straight 40 in it. 3000 miles later it froze up, no oil. I'm convinced they put 10-30 in it, and it just watered through. Next Jeep a 97 180k , couldn't find 40W anymore, so I started buying top rated 20w-50, instead of the usual 10-30, 10-40. Got that to almost 350k when it started randomly quitting on the highway, so I got my 3rd Grand Cherokee a 2002 with 147k, and ran mainly Valvoline Syn 20w-50 and it now has about 250k on it, but I have to add a quart frequently, at least 1 or 2 every 5000 miles. It was about the same with my 97 I had previously, had to add a quart every so often.
My late girlfriend had a Lumina that she put 10W-30 in, which was what it called for, but you had to frequently add a quart, about 500 miles and you would have to add a quart !
So I went to the Jeep dealer and asked what was the idea about using such thin oil, and the SM claimed Gas mileage.
Never in my life before the last ten years did I ever have a car that would need oil between oil changes, but now I have to look every 1000 miles!

Today I look at maybe Jeep 4 , advertised, looks great, bad motor, sure enough I look at it, great condition, and a knocking that sounded like one on you tube as a spun bearing, less than 200k, turns out this is very common, and I think its the thin modern oil used nowdays.

Yes, this is primarily a rant, but I would also like to hear from others about modern oil ! I'm about at the point of buying 30W diesel truck oil and using that.
 
  #2  
Old 03-24-2019, 09:45 AM
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Interesting thoughts about oil thickness/weight and longevity of the engine. I know climate in Florida is a huge difference from my home near Cleveland Ohio. I have been driving primarily GM v6 powered cars for years (maybe some 30ish years now) and also wrenching on them as needed. Somethings I am aware of (this is my knowledge/experience using the recommended oil from the manufacturer):
- the oil level switch appears to activate when the vehicle has about 2 quarts low (most GM v6 engines require 4.5 quarts of oil).
- if you are adding a quart or more between oil change intervals of 3000 miles, you most likely have a leak (be it a gasket seeping oil out or failed oil pressure switch leaking it, or some other situation). But less than that could be normal "consumption", changes tot he oil due to normal use of the engine.
- I have heard of some owners getting their v6 GMs to 300+k miles. I have personally seen multiple GM v6 cars get past 200K miles, they were eventually junked due to body rot, not drive train issues. Such as I drove a 94 Grand Am with a 3100 v6 for 9 years, sold it with about 215K miles, drive train was GREAT, no leaks and ran perfect. I maintained it as best I could, but body rot made me decide to sell it as a "beater with a heater". I know someone else that traded in a 2000 Grand Am with a 3400 and 257K miles (all but 30K of those miles were his). Car had issue due to his neglect, but big reason he got rid of it, body rot.

I believe for most locations, the manufacturer recommended oil probably works well. I believe even GM recommends some adjustments to the oil based on the climate/driving conditions. I have heard rumor that some vehicles these days benefit from the use of a Zinc additive (as oil manufacturers are not putting that in anymore). The Zinc supposedly helps fight against premature wear on bearings/lifters/rockers/push rods. It might be of value to find out if there is any truth to that.

Tire Kingdom, asked them do oil change and to use Straight 40 in it. 3000 miles later it froze up, no oil. I'm convinced they put 10-30 in it, and it just watered through.
This makes me curious. When you say that you believe it "just watered through", I assume you mean the oil was so thin it simply leaked out of the engine? If so, I would expect there to be tell tale signs of that (oil left where you parked, residue from the leak point, any list of issues). Since you mentioned when it froze there was no oil, do you know for certain they refilled the oil or that the oil filter/drain plug did not pop off somewhere (I have heard of shops not properly tightening those and people having that happen)? Even if the oil was as thin or thinner than water and the climate differences in Florida, I find it surprising that using the manufacturer's recommended oil would leak out because it was too thin.


Any case, interesting discussion topic. Curious to hear what others have to share about this.
 
  #3  
Old 03-25-2019, 09:08 AM
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Here's my thoughts on the subject from Minnesota. I remember how oil has changed since the 70"s it is quite different now a days.I was taught the "W" in the oil was the number used in terms of winter weight as 0W is a lot thinner oil in the winter than 20W which would be like paste at -10 below. On a higher mileage motor Or in the summer I I would use 10W but always 5W in the winter. On the weight # I only use 30 in the winter and either 30 or 40 in the summer. That being said on a hot rod or race car is where I would go to 20W50 or maybe a SAE weight oil. A couple things I remember from the past and now a rare sight is sludge in valve covers and oil pans.Definitely a bonus not seeing that anymore. Here's my rant , put Zinc back in the oil . I have a hydrolic lifters.
 
  #4  
Old 03-26-2019, 05:47 PM
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I never saw any oil pooled in the driveway, or any buildup of oil leak and dirt on the engine. So I rule out an oil leak as a loss of oil, it never lost any 40 weight previously, so I can only assume it consumed it / burned it, because it was so thin. Here in Florida, its HOT, Florida is the only State of the CONUS ( Continental US) 48 that has a different weather system. I'm in North Florida where maybe 10 days during the winter I might actually find ice on the windshield. During much of the year including the winter it can be 90+ during the day. Even 20W-50 is too thin IMO to handle heat, so the engine burns it. When I lived in NY I never had to check the oil between oil changes, but in Florida you have to because you can find yourself 2 quarts down between changes even using 20-50.
The problem I encounter is now days it is difficult to find the higher viscosity oil that IMO is necessary in a high temp environment !
 
  #5  
Old 03-28-2019, 02:32 PM
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I just always tend to use the recommended oil weight noted on my 2005 MC SS manual. I do though, however, always go for the full synthetic and add the SLICK 50 additive afterwards. Never had any issues.

Another note I wanted to make: My grandfather has ran the 3800 Buicks a lot of his life. When he told me he finally switched over to full synthetic, he swear his gas mileage went up by about 2 miles per gallon.
 
  #6  
Old 03-28-2019, 08:03 PM
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What I was always told about oil was the W stood for weight, or thickness of the oil, 30 W was common in cars back when I was a kid, then they started marketing the 10W-30, 10w-40's, synthetics because in the winter you would have an easier time starting cars and not have to wait to warm-up as long. What I was told was the W meant weight and the second number was the synthetic lubricating power. In other words 10W -30 was 10 weight oil with the lubricating capacity of 30 weight. I was also told that regular oil doesn't wear out it just gets dirty, but synthetic oils have additives and that the additives do wear out. You could theoretically clean old oil if you filtered it enough, but with synthetic you would have to replace the additives. I do most of my own oil changes, and a couple times I've had gallon jugs of old oil that sat around, and actually found that the sludge would settle to the bottom, not all of it, and in a couple emergency situations reused what was on top with no ill effects. Always thought about trying to reclaim oil, but always too busy to make a serious effort!

I figured the way to do it was to make a homemade centrifuge, with an electric motor to spin the contaminents to the bottom of the tubes, then pump it through a standard oil filter.

I'm sure the thin oil in newer cars works well and improves gas mileage, however in a vehicle with 150,000 plus miles which is increasingly more common these days, I find you need to run thicker oil otherwise you find yourself running low between oil changes.
 
  #7  
Old 03-29-2019, 09:19 AM
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I believe for most locations, the manufacturer recommended oil probably works well. I believe even GM recommends some adjustments to the oil based on the climate/driving conditions.


I agree with this. The GM manuals usually have suggested weights based off of outside temperature range and that has always worked fine for me and my family whose cars I serviced. Only time I've seen high oil consumption on the various GM engines we've had with higher mileage has been a gasket or seal issue. Certainly we've had cars use some oil normally, but not more than a quart between changes, even the ones we kept to 200k.


Originally Posted by Skatulaki View Post
You could theoretically clean old oil if you filtered it enough, but with synthetic you would have to replace the additives. I do most of my own oil changes, and a couple times I've had gallon jugs of old oil that sat around, and actually found that the sludge would settle to the bottom, not all of it, and in a couple emergency situations reused what was on top with no ill effects. Always thought about trying to reclaim oil, but always too busy to make a serious effort!

I figured the way to do it was to make a homemade centrifuge, with an electric motor to spin the contaminents to the bottom of the tubes, then pump it through a standard oil filter.
They sell recycled oil if you really want that. TBH oil isnt that expensive, especially regular oil, so I dont really see it being worth the risk / hassle to try to clean used oil.

I'm sure the thin oil in newer cars works well and improves gas mileage, however in a vehicle with 150,000 plus miles which is increasingly more common these days, I find you need to run thicker oil otherwise you find yourself running low between oil changes.
I'm not really sure I agree with changing weight of oil to reduce consumption. If its using that much oil and the valve seals and gaskets are in good shape, it must be coming up through worn oil control rings. Increasing weight of oil might slow consumption there, but you're also changing how the rest of the engine gets oiled as well from what the engineers intended. I do think it's possible to cause oiling issues elsewhere if you get too far outside their design range. Oil is cheap enough, I'd rather just keep dumping it in to keep up with the consumption if I kept the car.
 
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Old 04-01-2019, 08:44 PM
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They sell recycled oil if you really want that. TBH oil isnt that expensive, especially regular oil, so I dont really see it being worth the risk / hassle to try to clean used oil.
It was mostly about just seeing if I could actually do it myself, that was the primary interest, actually using it, I would for adding between changes, or if I just wanted to clean out and change after 500 miles.

TBH, new oil can be expensive, at $7 per quart, especially if you just need to ad a quart or two between changes, nor do you have to use it in your car! Plenty of places to use your cleaned old oil!
 

Last edited by Skatulaki; 04-01-2019 at 08:50 PM.
  #9  
Old 04-03-2019, 10:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Skatulaki View Post
TBH, new oil can be expensive, at $7 per quart, especially if you just need to ad a quart or two between changes, nor do you have to use it in your car! Plenty of places to use your cleaned old oil!
If your car is burning through 2 quarts every 5k miles, I hope you're not buying individual quarts of crazy high end oil.

Walmart and Amazon both have multiple options of regular oil in 5 quart jugs for under $20. At about $3.5 / makeup quart, that's only like $70 / 50k miles of driving.
 

Last edited by bumpin96monte; 04-03-2019 at 10:56 AM.
  #10  
Old 04-03-2019, 02:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Skatulaki View Post
Here in Florida, its HOT, Florida is the only State of the CONUS ( Continental US) 48 that has a different weather system. I'm in North Florida where maybe 10 days during the winter I might actually find ice on the windshield. During much of the year including the winter it can be 90+ during the day. Even 20W-50 is too thin IMO to handle heat, so the engine burns it. When I lived in NY I never had to check the oil between oil changes, but in Florida you have to because you can find yourself 2 quarts down between changes even using 20-50.
Rereading through this, I also struggle with this statement. You're saying that because Florida is one of the warmer states in the US that everyone is burning a ton of oil?

Reason I have a hard time is that I live in PHX which I believe has equal to or warmer temps year round (we never get below freezing and are often over 100 in the summer for months straight during the daytime) and everyone out here isnt burning massive amounts of oil as a result. Only car I've had with notable oil consumption in the 8 or so years we've been out here was my GP, but that was a common engine specific issue due to the DOD.
 

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