an idea to simplify mail order tuning!
#1
12-19-2013, 03:20 PM
an idea to simplify mail order tuning!
Hey guys, so after seeing a post from kean with a obd2 android app I have just purchase a bluetooth obd2 adapter. Now this got me thinking, if we can interface with the obd2 on our phones why can't we tune them from phones? I did some google research and it apears some f-150 owners have a app that applies one of a few pre-set tunes. So my idea would be to build an app that would allow you to custom tune your pcm from an adroid device, but also allow you to get the neccessary information for a tune, send it to a tuner who can make a custom tune for you then he can send it back and you can load it from your phone, it would remove a lot of the expenses for hardcore tuners or even ones getting started like jason, you just pay for the tune that they are sending you based on the information that the app has colected from your pcm, it could probably collect evrrything neccessary during a normal daily drive or a short track session. But then again I don't know a lot about pcm tuning, I know that their is similiar software for computer but this would make it a lot more accesible I feel. What do you guys think? Any input?
#2
12-19-2013, 04:15 PM
I'm not sure that the Bluetooth adapter we have interacts with the pcm in such a way that we could tune it. Also, you'd probably need some kind of new app on your phone to do this.
#3
12-19-2013, 04:20 PM
Talking with my brother about working on an app and checking the comunication ability of these blue-tooth adapters. They have read/write abilities I know that. Its just how much they have.
#4
12-19-2013, 05:14 PM
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Southeast PA
Posts: 25,136
The reason tuning software is so expensive, is because they are deciphering all of the information that the PCM is throwing at it, and making it a COHESIVE string of data.
If it were that easy, HPTuners would have a mobile app. Even EFILive would have better mobile ideas. Once you get into a tuner, you see just how powerful the real software even is.
You can buy handheld junk that can make tiny adjustments which is just changing values that certain sensors read at to fake a tune, but those things just aren't worth it.
If it were that easy, HPTuners would have a mobile app. Even EFILive would have better mobile ideas. Once you get into a tuner, you see just how powerful the real software even is.
You can buy handheld junk that can make tiny adjustments which is just changing values that certain sensors read at to fake a tune, but those things just aren't worth it.
#5
12-19-2013, 05:17 PM
The reason tuning software is so expensive, is because they are deciphering all of the information that the PCM is throwing at it, and making it a COHESIVE string of data.
If it were that easy, HPTuners would have a mobile app. Even EFILive would have better mobile ideas. Once you get into a tuner, you see just how powerful the real software even is.
You can buy handheld junk that can make tiny adjustments which is just changing values that certain sensors read at to fake a tune, but those things just aren't worth it.
If it were that easy, HPTuners would have a mobile app. Even EFILive would have better mobile ideas. Once you get into a tuner, you see just how powerful the real software even is.
You can buy handheld junk that can make tiny adjustments which is just changing values that certain sensors read at to fake a tune, but those things just aren't worth it.
Also wouldn't it be mostly possible to adapt existing software into the platform? A lot of the basics are their. Obviously people already have programing software to interpret what the pcm is putting out.
Last edited by dbaldwin; 12-19-2013 at 05:23 PM.
#6
12-19-2013, 05:54 PM
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Mentor, Ohio
Posts: 12,156
I'm FAR from an expert, but I can give some tech speak to this....
- The PCM has software on it that a tuner (DHP, HPTuner and some others) can extract. Commonly into a BIN file (HPT uses their own format).
- There is an OSID assigned to the software in the PCM (think of it like a "version" of an operating system, essentially, that's what it is).
- In order for any device to tune a PCM, some one has to "map" the settings in those BIN files and those mappings are different for every OSID. This is where the tech info ramps up. The software you use makes it "look" like you are editing an Excel spreadsheet, but the reality on the back end is you see a translation, edit that translation and the software re-translates it back to the BIN file. The mapping for the OSID is so the software can Hex edit the BIN file. It tells the software you use what position the values are located at. To achieve this, that BIN file had to under go a process, basically reverse engineering.
It's quit involved. There is an open source app called "Tiny Tuner" used a lot with the DHP, I wanted to try and figure out how to map additional data as that tool is EASY to add a mapping, the hard part is figuring out where the mapping it. End result, it is currently beyond my level of geek.
Even those handheld tuners had some R&D into them. The companies figured out how to mod a few settings to impress the buyer, but kept things fairly simple (where as with a tuner like the DHP, the settings available, you can do serious damage to the car).
- Once you edit the BIN file (which is done offline), you then flash either the entire file or only the changes back to the PCM. And away you go.
-I'm certainly NOT going to say you can't do what you want on a "mobile app" if the bluetooth adapter can read/write to the PCM. Again, it's working with HEX editing. In theory, you may want to look at the open source app "Tiny Tuner". It does not have code to read/write to the PCM (it's just an editor for the BIN file), but it may give you some light into what's involved, plus if you want to focus on GM 3800/3400 engines, a lot of the mapping data is already there. IF you look at and use any of the code or even the PCM mappings from TinyTuner, I would advise what you create being open source and freeware! Otherwise, it's just abuse of someone else's free work (and possibly illegal).
BTW - A subject I did not touch on, there are lot of apps out there to record your sensor data and assist people in tuning their cars. Some of the apps are fancy spreadsheets to calculate data. True tuning requires work with lots of data. The mail order guys that do full tunes have a lot of data to work with and make reasonable and safe approximations to your cars.
Sorry for the long post, but I hope this gives you some indepth info on what you are looking at and perhaps a starting point to the idea.
- The PCM has software on it that a tuner (DHP, HPTuner and some others) can extract. Commonly into a BIN file (HPT uses their own format).
- There is an OSID assigned to the software in the PCM (think of it like a "version" of an operating system, essentially, that's what it is).
- In order for any device to tune a PCM, some one has to "map" the settings in those BIN files and those mappings are different for every OSID. This is where the tech info ramps up. The software you use makes it "look" like you are editing an Excel spreadsheet, but the reality on the back end is you see a translation, edit that translation and the software re-translates it back to the BIN file. The mapping for the OSID is so the software can Hex edit the BIN file. It tells the software you use what position the values are located at. To achieve this, that BIN file had to under go a process, basically reverse engineering.
It's quit involved. There is an open source app called "Tiny Tuner" used a lot with the DHP, I wanted to try and figure out how to map additional data as that tool is EASY to add a mapping, the hard part is figuring out where the mapping it. End result, it is currently beyond my level of geek.
Even those handheld tuners had some R&D into them. The companies figured out how to mod a few settings to impress the buyer, but kept things fairly simple (where as with a tuner like the DHP, the settings available, you can do serious damage to the car).
- Once you edit the BIN file (which is done offline), you then flash either the entire file or only the changes back to the PCM. And away you go.
-I'm certainly NOT going to say you can't do what you want on a "mobile app" if the bluetooth adapter can read/write to the PCM. Again, it's working with HEX editing. In theory, you may want to look at the open source app "Tiny Tuner". It does not have code to read/write to the PCM (it's just an editor for the BIN file), but it may give you some light into what's involved, plus if you want to focus on GM 3800/3400 engines, a lot of the mapping data is already there. IF you look at and use any of the code or even the PCM mappings from TinyTuner, I would advise what you create being open source and freeware! Otherwise, it's just abuse of someone else's free work (and possibly illegal).
BTW - A subject I did not touch on, there are lot of apps out there to record your sensor data and assist people in tuning their cars. Some of the apps are fancy spreadsheets to calculate data. True tuning requires work with lots of data. The mail order guys that do full tunes have a lot of data to work with and make reasonable and safe approximations to your cars.
Sorry for the long post, but I hope this gives you some indepth info on what you are looking at and perhaps a starting point to the idea.
#7
12-19-2013, 06:15 PM
I'm FAR from an expert, but I can give some tech speak to this....
- The PCM has software on it that a tuner (DHP, HPTuner and some others) can extract. Commonly into a BIN file (HPT uses their own format).
- There is an OSID assigned to the software in the PCM (think of it like a "version" of an operating system, essentially, that's what it is).
- In order for any device to tune a PCM, some one has to "map" the settings in those BIN files and those mappings are different for every OSID. This is where the tech info ramps up. The software you use makes it "look" like you are editing an Excel spreadsheet, but the reality on the back end is you see a translation, edit that translation and the software re-translates it back to the BIN file. The mapping for the OSID is so the software can Hex edit the BIN file. It tells the software you use what position the values are located at. To achieve this, that BIN file had to under go a process, basically reverse engineering.
It's quit involved. There is an open source app called "Tiny Tuner" used a lot with the DHP, I wanted to try and figure out how to map additional data as that tool is EASY to add a mapping, the hard part is figuring out where the mapping it. End result, it is currently beyond my level of geek.
Even those handheld tuners had some R&D into them. The companies figured out how to mod a few settings to impress the buyer, but kept things fairly simple (where as with a tuner like the DHP, the settings available, you can do serious damage to the car).
- Once you edit the BIN file (which is done offline), you then flash either the entire file or only the changes back to the PCM. And away you go.
-I'm certainly NOT going to say you can't do what you want on a "mobile app" if the bluetooth adapter can read/write to the PCM. Again, it's working with HEX editing. In theory, you may want to look at the open source app "Tiny Tuner". It does not have code to read/write to the PCM (it's just an editor for the BIN file), but it may give you some light into what's involved, plus if you want to focus on GM 3800/3400 engines, a lot of the mapping data is already there. IF you look at and use any of the code or even the PCM mappings from TinyTuner, I would advise what you create being open source and freeware! Otherwise, it's just abuse of someone else's free work (and possibly illegal).
BTW - A subject I did not touch on, there are lot of apps out there to record your sensor data and assist people in tuning their cars. Some of the apps are fancy spreadsheets to calculate data. True tuning requires work with lots of data. The mail order guys that do full tunes have a lot of data to work with and make reasonable and safe approximations to your cars.
Sorry for the long post, but I hope this gives you some indepth info on what you are looking at and perhaps a starting point to the idea.
- The PCM has software on it that a tuner (DHP, HPTuner and some others) can extract. Commonly into a BIN file (HPT uses their own format).
- There is an OSID assigned to the software in the PCM (think of it like a "version" of an operating system, essentially, that's what it is).
- In order for any device to tune a PCM, some one has to "map" the settings in those BIN files and those mappings are different for every OSID. This is where the tech info ramps up. The software you use makes it "look" like you are editing an Excel spreadsheet, but the reality on the back end is you see a translation, edit that translation and the software re-translates it back to the BIN file. The mapping for the OSID is so the software can Hex edit the BIN file. It tells the software you use what position the values are located at. To achieve this, that BIN file had to under go a process, basically reverse engineering.
It's quit involved. There is an open source app called "Tiny Tuner" used a lot with the DHP, I wanted to try and figure out how to map additional data as that tool is EASY to add a mapping, the hard part is figuring out where the mapping it. End result, it is currently beyond my level of geek.
Even those handheld tuners had some R&D into them. The companies figured out how to mod a few settings to impress the buyer, but kept things fairly simple (where as with a tuner like the DHP, the settings available, you can do serious damage to the car).
- Once you edit the BIN file (which is done offline), you then flash either the entire file or only the changes back to the PCM. And away you go.
-I'm certainly NOT going to say you can't do what you want on a "mobile app" if the bluetooth adapter can read/write to the PCM. Again, it's working with HEX editing. In theory, you may want to look at the open source app "Tiny Tuner". It does not have code to read/write to the PCM (it's just an editor for the BIN file), but it may give you some light into what's involved, plus if you want to focus on GM 3800/3400 engines, a lot of the mapping data is already there. IF you look at and use any of the code or even the PCM mappings from TinyTuner, I would advise what you create being open source and freeware! Otherwise, it's just abuse of someone else's free work (and possibly illegal).
BTW - A subject I did not touch on, there are lot of apps out there to record your sensor data and assist people in tuning their cars. Some of the apps are fancy spreadsheets to calculate data. True tuning requires work with lots of data. The mail order guys that do full tunes have a lot of data to work with and make reasonable and safe approximations to your cars.
Sorry for the long post, but I hope this gives you some indepth info on what you are looking at and perhaps a starting point to the idea.
Thanks for the Info, gives me a good place to start looking. Ill have to check out tiny tuner for sure and now that Im getting the obd2 adapter ill check out some more apps to see what's out there.
#9
12-20-2013, 07:32 AM
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Mentor, Ohio
Posts: 12,156
Just a thought.
Like all ideas, this will take a lot of effort to get off the ground. Best of luck!!
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
06BlackSS
General Monte Carlo Talk
9
11-01-2006 12:26 PM
