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93 Octane pump gas - Compression is in the range of 9:1 (+/- prox.) At this point in time - not sure how the injection set up will be but like you indicated - I am sure it will be at each port for tuning purposes. Have not really discussed that yet with the builder - but I will now. Appreciate the interest - SAM
Of course with a huffer you will have to have port injection along with top injection.
Curious why you're saying it has to have top injection? Plenty of whipple LS builds out there run port injection in the factory locations only. This is a pretty good size blower, but he's also running very low compression for an LS which should help a lot with reducing how knock prone the engine is under boost.
Certainly a post blower meth nozzle or two would let you crank the boost even higher, but certainly wouldn't be a requirement with a reasonably sized pulley.
In terms of the individual EGT thing- TBH that's pretty rare for a tuner to use these days on a setup like this - a relatively "mild" street engine build on a well documented LS platform. Most tuners will just use a wideband O2 (or two - one on each bank) and call it good. At most they'll do a plug pull after a dyno run if theres concerns (say from potentially uneven meth distribution due to odd nozzle placement).
The only time I've really seen stuff these days like you're talking is for all out race engine builds that are putting down well above what he's looking to make.
Last edited by bumpin96monte; 04-07-2021 at 09:29 AM.
Curious why you're saying it has to have top injection? Plenty of whipple LS builds out there run port injection in the factory locations only. This is a pretty good size blower, but he's also running very low compression for an LS which should help a lot with reducing how knock prone the engine is under boost.
Certainly a post blower meth nozzle or two would let you crank the boost even higher, but certainly wouldn't be a requirement with a reasonably sized pulley.
In terms of the individual EGT thing- TBH that's pretty rare for a tuner to use these days on a setup like this - a relatively "mild" street engine build on a well documented LS platform. Most tuners will just use a wideband O2 (or two - one on each bank) and call it good. At most they'll do a plug pull after a dyno run if theres concerns (say from potentially uneven meth distribution due to odd nozzle placement).
The only time I've really seen stuff these days like you're talking is for all out race engine builds that are putting down well above what he's looking to make.
Just assume he would run both, and it's very common on blown motors, especially on Nitro or Alky because the fuel gets mixed sooner. On my 23T we ran port injection because the hat was only for air. Doesn't matter if a motor is pure race or fast street, they should all be in a good state of tune to get the most out of them. The guy probably has a dyno with headers for it with EGTs and can get it sorted out before putting it into his Monte Carlo. Once the ports are right you rarely have to change them, only the main pill (for mechanical) will have to increase or decrease. Since he is running EFI it will self adjust. Pulling plugs is very old school and with no lead in gas today you aren't going to see much. This is 2021. Tuners use EGT, just like the factory, only we are talking measuring each cylinder. To sum up, there is no good reason NOT to get the each cylinder perfect.
Last edited by GrayGhost1951; 04-07-2021 at 02:57 PM.
Just assume he would run both, and it's very common on blown motors
Only reason I mention it is I'd hate for the OP to go back to his shop telling them that he has to have it. Its just not all that common on LS stuff, especially with gas as the OP is running as it doesn't evaporate quickly like the alcohols do. A totally separate meth nozzle or meth/water mix is fairly common upstream but you've got to be careful on modern blowers as it can damage the coating on some (such as with the stock M90 that comes on the supercharged 3800s).
Doesn't matter if a motor is pure race or fast street, they should all be in a good state of tune to get the most out of them.
I disagree on the street car side as there is a lot of really fast stuff out there (especially LS based) that's tuned without individual cylinder readings. I certainly agree it's better where feasible but it does add cost/time and IMO isn't necessary on something like this thats not going to be pushed anywhere near the limits of what it could be capable of in a max effort configuration.
Its easy to say that every fast street car should have it done, but the reality is that many don't.
Pulling plugs is very old school and with no lead in gas today you aren't going to see much.
May be old school, but it still works. I'm not saying people are tuning by plug readings like way back in the day - obviously thats done in real time with wideband readings. But it is still a helpful informational tool for certain situations.
This is 2021. Tuners use EGT, just like the factory, only we are talking measuring each cylinder.
I respectfully disagree. As you pointed out, this is 2021, EGT tuning hasnt really been a thing in more than 20 years on the EFI / Street / Gas side since widebands had become so good.
Id bet only a tiny % of street car LS engine tuners use EGT to tune and only a tiny fraction of them use individual cylinder EGT. Even for the 3800 platform that's much more prolific on this forum - I've never seen a single car tuned solely on EGT ever. Certainly most 3800s arent doing 1000whp+, but scaled for the displacement difference, there are certainly plenty of equally stressed 3800s.
Again, not trying to start an argument, just trying to keep the OP from trying to force his shop to tune his car on EGT when thats very likely not their preferred method. IMO there's nothing wrong with tuning via wideband only at this power level; we've got numerous local LS / LT cars in this power range tuned without any EGT info.
To sum up, there is no good reason NOT to get the each cylinder perfect.
Time and cost TBH. Theres a reason so many setups don't. IMO if you're not pushing the boost and tune to the ragged edge and give both a safe margin, theres no big benefit. You could certainly squeeze out more power by doing so, but this setup isn't going to be wanting for power in any way even with a very safe setup.
Last edited by bumpin96monte; 04-07-2021 at 09:18 PM.
Only reason I mention it is I'd hate for the OP to go back to his shop telling them that he has to have it. Its just not all that common on LS stuff, especially with gas as the OP is running as it doesn't evaporate quickly like the alcohols do. A totally separate meth nozzle or meth/water mix is fairly common upstream but you've got to be careful on modern blowers as it can damage the coating on some (such as with the stock M90 that comes on the supercharged 3800s).
I disagree on the street car side as there is a lot of really fast stuff out there (especially LS based) that's tuned without individual cylinder readings. I certainly agree it's better where feasible but it does add cost/time and IMO isn't necessary on something like this thats not going to be pushed anywhere near the limits of what it could be capable of in a max effort configuration.
Its easy to say that every fast street car should have it done, but the reality is that many don't.
May be old school, but it still works. I'm not saying people are tuning by plug readings like way back in the day - obviously thats done in real time with wideband readings. But it is still a helpful informational tool for certain situations.
I respectfully disagree. As you pointed out, this is 2021, EGT tuning hasnt really been a thing in more than 20 years on the EFI / Street / Gas side since widebands had become so good.
Id bet only a tiny % of street car LS engine tuners use EGT to tune and only a tiny fraction of them use individual cylinder EGT. Even for the 3800 platform that's much more prolific on this forum - I've never seen a single car tuned solely on EGT ever. Certainly most 3800s arent doing 1000whp+, but scaled for the displacement difference, there are certainly plenty of equally stressed 3800s.
Again, not trying to start an argument, just trying to keep the OP from trying to force his shop to tune his car on EGT when thats very likely not their preferred method. IMO there's nothing wrong with tuning via wideband only at this power level; we've got numerous local LS / LT cars in this power range tuned without any EGT info.
Time and cost TBH. Theres a reason so many setups don't. IMO if you're not pushing the boost and tune to the ragged edge and give both a safe margin, theres no big benefit. You could certainly squeeze out more power by doing so, but this setup isn't going to be wanting for power in any way even with a very safe setup.
This guy is an engine pro. I seriously doubt the OP is going to tell him anything, except how much do I owe you. Have you ever seen a shop build a 1000 hp motor and dyno it without using EGT's? They keep headers there with EGT bungs for just that reason. Once it's sorted, then he does hot have to use them permanently. When cars went to EFI, they all used sensors to maintain a 14-1 AFR. Not sure what you mean. Your MC and mine both have upstream and downstream CO2 sensors, or least mine does.
Curious why you're saying it has to have top injection? Plenty of whipple LS builds out there run port injection in the factory locations only. This is a pretty good size blower, but he's also running very low compression for an LS which should help a lot with reducing how knock prone the engine is under boost.
Certainly a post blower meth nozzle or two would let you crank the boost even higher, but certainly wouldn't be a requirement with a reasonably sized pulley.
I have never seen a blown car run more than 9-1 compression. 8-1 is usually the norm. You should also realize that about half these cars are built for show and would grenade on the first pass down the track.
I have never seen a blown car run more than 9-1 compression. 8-1 is usually the norm. You should also realize that about half these cars are built for show and would grenade on the first pass down the track.
Well my fabricator had back surgery this week so it will be a while before any new pictures will be posted. But here’s a bit of info for GrayGhost. I called my tech, now remember this is a builder who races pro-mod. My motor has 9.65:1 compression and if my memory is correct the blower is a Whipple either 4.3 or 4.5 liter.
Well my fabricator had back surgery this week so it will be a while before any new pictures will be posted. But here’s a bit of info for GrayGhost. I called my tech, now remember this is a builder who races pro-mod. My motor has 9.65:1 compression and if my memory is correct the blower is a Whipple either 4.3 or 4.5 liter.
I have been away from Drag Racing since 2000. Things are probably changing. But still, that is not a ton of compression. Are they still O-ringing the blocks on blown stuff? I ran almost 16-1 with my injected car, but blown cars run a lot less. Pretty sure Top Fuel is around 8-1. Thanks for the update, and hope he recovers. I have had two back surgeries, and you live with it forever, especially when you get older. That said, lower back is not that rough. I was up and round the next day. My car is finally at the body shop of a guy that has been doing this for 37 years. I lucked into him. He is a drag racer that runs heads up outlaw. Twin turbo 632 Nova that run 3:70's in the 1/8. Some ride.
04-07-2021, 07:34 AM
