http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/22/bu...&smid=fb-share



Here's an article a friend of mine posted on Facebook. I'ts a bit long winded, and seems to go back and forth as to what America needs. Do we need more skilled workers? Less skilled workers? Why isn't Apple employing as many of its jobs in America now? What is their justification for this?

As a history major myself, the parts about dormitories with workers who work 12 hours a day, 6 days a week reminds me a lot of the US before WWII. My grandparents on my mothers side as late as 1953 lived in a mill home on the ground of the factory where my grandfather worked.

In the U.S. we decided that people should have a life outside of work. We believe in the "8 hours a day, 5 days a week, overtime pay, holidays off." This article implies that yes, we could have jobs in America again, but we would be going back into the third wrold. If we were willing to work this hard for probably less than $5 an hour, then we would have more jobs than we would know what to do with.

However, China will one day have a consumer movement much like what was seen in the U.S. during the 1950s and 1960s. Their labor will one day have its own movements, and the only place I see for "cheap labor" to go next is Africa.

An economist once said that 200 years ago, the whole world was poor and sick. Then most of Europe became "Rich and healthy." One day, teh whole world will be "rich and healthy." These are parts of the growing pains. We have ot be careful about which jobs we bring to the U.S. We might take ourselves back into the gilded age.



I believe it was Henry Ford who offered his employees what was then a high wage of $5 a day and a credit plan to buy a car. He believed that employees should be able to afford the product they produce. Could the people making these products afford to buy one?



Reason I post this is because so many of you claim we need our manufacturing jobs back. Well, is this article bull ****, would getting these jobs back take America backwards instead of forward, or would we be better off trying to get better educated, be more innovative, and move our economy towards a more high tech, service and technical based one?


I concur more with the economists. What made this country great in 1950 will not make it great in 2012 and beyond. We have to move forward. The question is: how?

 

My question is how can we survive as an economy without making anything? Most of the tech jobs are quickly becoming so automated that the jobs that it created 5-10 years ago are already being eliminated. Skilled labor trades are experiencing such a massive shortage because our society (including these economists) tells everyone that they're not worth anything unless they go to college; that these skilled labor jobs are below them. If this is not changed, the cost of building things will skyrocket, the cost of plumbers and electricians will skyrocket, hell, the cost of getting your toilet unplugged will go up drastically because there is still the same demand, yet nobody to do these jobs.

Three years ago, my major looked like a sure thing to get a job even in a tough economy. Now, I'll have to watch and make sure that I'm taking a job that can't be outsourced or automated. That's why I'm taking advantage of the military to give myself a solid backup (we'll always need EMTs). I can't go back onto Active Duty on a permanent basis anymore (I can only get mobilized from a Reserve or Guard unit) so I have to do what I can.

 

Duane this Apple article expands on what I was saying in my posts about running for president. We need more highly educated people in the engineering and technical fields and Steve Jobs suggested to Mr. Obama that the government subsidize that. I believe that would be free college or reduced cost.
One problem I have with the article is corporate greed. The article suggests that most workers earn less than 17 dollars a day working a twelve hour day building the I-Phone. I don't know how many phones they build in a day or hour. I don't know what the cost of materials are. I am certain they build more than one phone an hour and the materials are not that expensive. I also know that I paid 750.00 for my I-phone 4S with the big memory on a two year plan. I would bet there was probably 400.00 dollars of profit for Apple on the purchase of my phone. They could build this phone in the US and still make a good profit, it would not be the insane profit that they make now. I am not anti business but I am against corporate greed. I want to invest in education, and anything else that will drive manufacturing back to the USA. With the elimination of the middle class we also are eliminating the buyers for I-Phones and everything else except for bare necessities. Wages in America will continue to decline until we fix this problem. The corporate officers are continuing to line their pockets and make them fatter and fatter. When is enough wealth enough? Americans should. It have to give up having a family in order to support them selves. The working conditions described in that article should be criminal and America will not and should not have to succumb to the same to compete.

 

And as I say, it won't continue like this forever. The Chinese worker will unionize a bit like the American workers did in the Gilded age and in the 1950s. Cheap labor will go somewhere else. My guess is Africa. The world will run out of "cheap labor" in about 100 years and most of the wrold salaries will be about the same I believe.


There are lots of problems left with industrialization and technology coming into society.


Here in the US South, the Republicans push about how manufacturing was once the back bone of our economy and we need to get those jobs back to make the south prosperous again (we have some of the highest unemployment rates in the nation in the "Bible belt). However, most of those jobs came to the south from New England. They came to New England from Europe. They just continue to migrate. Europe is in trouble now, and so is New England, but they replaced most of their jobs with more advanced jobs and more advanced technology development. The US South gained some of these jobs as a lot of New England now has medical science and medical technology companies coming about.


I know we need to manufacture something. The question is what? Do we want to make iPhones? Cars? Clothing? We need to have something that we can trade on the global market.




But to say that we need to manufacture a lot isn't necessarily correct either. For most of this nations history, we have imported more than we exported. For most of this nations history, we have carried a debt. And through all of that, we have arisen to be the worlds greatest nation with the greatest economy. However, never has our debt exceeded our GDP. Nor have not had the assets to trade that we do not have now.

 

Duane I can't wait one hundred years to see if your theory is correct. By that time the US will be a third world nation and I'm not willing to sit idlely by for that to happen. First off the unionization of North America didn't happen in the 1950's. That began in the 1890's and was fighting its last battles in the 1920's. Unions were well intrenched by the time the 1950's came around and were becoming very powerful and possibly too much so at that point.

As far as China unionizing it's work force, I don't see that happening any time soon. The Chinese government is firmly intrenched in Chinese business and is owning a majority stake in most of the big businesses. China is a Communist government that rules its people by force and by fear. A union uprising will be met by gun fire and the loss of life of the demonstrators. The Chinese people do not have the freedoms that we have and their government reminds the people of that when it sees the need.
The apple article didn't say that building products here could not be profitable. It did say the profits from building in China were greater.
Corporate greed combined with unfair free trade agreements with China and other countries has made producing products here uncompetitive. Ending free trade agreements and changing the tax code so that businesses reinvest profits back into business rather than siphoning those profits to make their wallets fatter can level the playing field.
Keep in mind that the current state of this country is not the fault of the average citizen trying to make a living, this situation was created by rich politicians and rich business owners and investors. I don't begrudge them for trying to trying to get rich. There should be a limit to those riches when it comes on the backs of so many. Some of these cats have accumulated more riches than they could spend in a life time while at the same time begrudging the worker the opportunity to put a descent meal on the table let alone acquire the Americsn dream.

Duane back in the fifties which I realize was before your time and mine, but ask someone who lived it. Most households the man worked and the woman stayed home raising the kids and doing the domestic duties. If they worked hard and were careful with their money they were able to get the American dream of a home and such things. Now we have kids raising themselves with with both parents working and not making enough to get by. There is something wrong with this.Do you realize that this is the first generation that is suspected will have less than their parents? That includes you bud. Things need to change and the sooner the better.