> Mandatory Black Boxes in your Vehicle? <
#1
12-14-2012, 08:31 AM
> Mandatory Black Boxes in your Vehicle? <
Member's, do you want a Black Box in your vehicle that records your driving habit's ? (It's not listed on your window sticker 4-Sure) Sound `Off & post your thoughts/opinions...Big Brother is watching & so is your insurance companies...
Four Myths About NHTSA’s Proposal for Mandatory Black Boxes
<SMALL class=post-credits>December 13, 2012 at 5:55 pm by Justin Berkowitz</SMALL>
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<NOSCRIPT></NOSCRIPT>
Twenty-four-hour news networks interrupted their coverage of
earlier this week to light a fire under NHTSA’s announcement that it planned to mandate event data recorders, or black boxes, be installed in all new cars. Amidst the frenzy, it almost seems as though many reporting on the announcement didn’t actually read the proposed NHTSA rule or anything about what the event data recorders actually do. We’re here to debunk some of the rumors in circulation.
Myth 1: NHTSA’s Announcement Last Week Said Something We Haven’t Heard Before
Nope. NHTSA has been talking about mandating event data recorders since at least 2006, when it first set rules about how voluntarily installed EDRs had to operate. The only thing NHTSA announced recently is that it plans to put this rule into effect beginning in 2014, which was the date floated officially and unofficially during the past year.
Myth 2: The White House “Signed Off” on NHTSA’s Proposal for Event Data Recorders
A number of major news outlets based their reporting of the black box topic on a story published in the Detroit News, which was titled “NHTSA gets White House OK to mandate vehicle ‘black boxes.’” This makes it sound like Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood brought a bottle of brandy to the Oval Office, kissed Barack Obama’s ring, and said, “Mr. President, even though it’s not the day of your daughter’s wedding, we’d like your blessing for our plan to require automakers to install black boxes in every car. Can we go ahead with this?”
In reality, any time an executive agency proposes a new regulation—whether it’s NHTSA or the Forest Service—they have to clear it with the Office of Management and Budget to make sure the new reg doesn’t conflict with what another agency is doing, isn’t creating some new huge burden for the budget, and that the new rule wouldn’t be totally contrary to the president’s stated goals. The OMB is part of the White House organizational structure, so while it’s technically accurate that the White House cleared the black box plan, this routine rubber stamp is meaningless.
Myth 3: Mandating Black Boxes Will Change the Status Quo
Does your car have an event data recorder? Even you, the automotive illuminati who read Car and Driver, would be forgiven for not knowing. It’s not something listed in a database or published on a window sticker. It turns out that well over 90 percent of new cars sold today in the U.S. already have event data recorders, which automakers have been voluntarily installing for several years. The proposed mandate would extend to the remaining holdover vehicles, which includes some high-end sports cars and a number of Volkswagens and Audis.
What we’re talking about, then, is a rule that would change a sliver of the automotive market. Typically, automakers—either directly or through group lobby associations—push back against any additional government regulation; they don’t want control and they don’t want added costs. But when it comes to EDRs, the counter-campaign against event data recorders has been virtually nonexistent. Toyota’s continuing nightmare surrounding unintended acceleration showed car manufacturers just how helpful EDRs can be in defending themselves. When a company can analyze black boxes and say, “Sorry, driver, but the computer recorded you mashing the gas pedal with no input on the brake,” that’s persuasive evidence.
<HR noShade>
Make no mistake: The government—local police, the CIA, the FBI, DEA, Homeland Security, water department—can and does track individual cars. Much of the time it’s done in a squeaky-clean way, with warrants and court approval for monitoring Fat Tony and the Don Bot. Sometimes, it’s a legal gray area, and we wind up with major court battles trying to sort out the rules for law enforcement. (Privacy advocates, like this writer, were pleased by the recent Supreme Court decision saying that law enforcement officers need a warrant to track vehicles using GPS tags.) Event data recorders are an entirely separate matter. They don’t transmit data. The boxes record certain characteristics about the vehicle, like steering input, acceleration, seatbelt status, and brake usage, in a sort of “streaming” format, retaining only the past few seconds of data for any given moment.
There are serious questions about who owns the data, who can use it, and who can access it. Even with plain-language rules from NHTSA, our judges will end up having to hammer out the details. Bear in mind, though, that a huge cache of information already is stored in in-car GPS systems, and that’s all subject to download by the police or an opponent in a lawsuit. The same is true for smart phones, by the way, which contain way more than just GPS coordinates.
Four Myths About NHTSA’s Proposal for Mandatory Black Boxes
<SMALL class=post-credits>December 13, 2012 at 5:55 pm by Justin Berkowitz</SMALL>
<!-- Gigya Social Share Floater -->
<NOSCRIPT></NOSCRIPT>Twenty-four-hour news networks interrupted their coverage of
Myth 1: NHTSA’s Announcement Last Week Said Something We Haven’t Heard Before
Nope. NHTSA has been talking about mandating event data recorders since at least 2006, when it first set rules about how voluntarily installed EDRs had to operate. The only thing NHTSA announced recently is that it plans to put this rule into effect beginning in 2014, which was the date floated officially and unofficially during the past year.
Myth 2: The White House “Signed Off” on NHTSA’s Proposal for Event Data Recorders
A number of major news outlets based their reporting of the black box topic on a story published in the Detroit News, which was titled “NHTSA gets White House OK to mandate vehicle ‘black boxes.’” This makes it sound like Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood brought a bottle of brandy to the Oval Office, kissed Barack Obama’s ring, and said, “Mr. President, even though it’s not the day of your daughter’s wedding, we’d like your blessing for our plan to require automakers to install black boxes in every car. Can we go ahead with this?”
In reality, any time an executive agency proposes a new regulation—whether it’s NHTSA or the Forest Service—they have to clear it with the Office of Management and Budget to make sure the new reg doesn’t conflict with what another agency is doing, isn’t creating some new huge burden for the budget, and that the new rule wouldn’t be totally contrary to the president’s stated goals. The OMB is part of the White House organizational structure, so while it’s technically accurate that the White House cleared the black box plan, this routine rubber stamp is meaningless.
Myth 3: Mandating Black Boxes Will Change the Status Quo
Does your car have an event data recorder? Even you, the automotive illuminati who read Car and Driver, would be forgiven for not knowing. It’s not something listed in a database or published on a window sticker. It turns out that well over 90 percent of new cars sold today in the U.S. already have event data recorders, which automakers have been voluntarily installing for several years. The proposed mandate would extend to the remaining holdover vehicles, which includes some high-end sports cars and a number of Volkswagens and Audis.
What we’re talking about, then, is a rule that would change a sliver of the automotive market. Typically, automakers—either directly or through group lobby associations—push back against any additional government regulation; they don’t want control and they don’t want added costs. But when it comes to EDRs, the counter-campaign against event data recorders has been virtually nonexistent. Toyota’s continuing nightmare surrounding unintended acceleration showed car manufacturers just how helpful EDRs can be in defending themselves. When a company can analyze black boxes and say, “Sorry, driver, but the computer recorded you mashing the gas pedal with no input on the brake,” that’s persuasive evidence.
<HR noShade>
- Instrumented Test: 2013 Lincoln MKZ AWD V6
- Instrumented Test: 2013 Porsche Boxster Manual
- Instrumented Test: 2013 Fiat 500 Turbo
Make no mistake: The government—local police, the CIA, the FBI, DEA, Homeland Security, water department—can and does track individual cars. Much of the time it’s done in a squeaky-clean way, with warrants and court approval for monitoring Fat Tony and the Don Bot. Sometimes, it’s a legal gray area, and we wind up with major court battles trying to sort out the rules for law enforcement. (Privacy advocates, like this writer, were pleased by the recent Supreme Court decision saying that law enforcement officers need a warrant to track vehicles using GPS tags.) Event data recorders are an entirely separate matter. They don’t transmit data. The boxes record certain characteristics about the vehicle, like steering input, acceleration, seatbelt status, and brake usage, in a sort of “streaming” format, retaining only the past few seconds of data for any given moment.There are serious questions about who owns the data, who can use it, and who can access it. Even with plain-language rules from NHTSA, our judges will end up having to hammer out the details. Bear in mind, though, that a huge cache of information already is stored in in-car GPS systems, and that’s all subject to download by the police or an opponent in a lawsuit. The same is true for smart phones, by the way, which contain way more than just GPS coordinates.
Last edited by Space; 12-14-2012 at 08:52 AM.
#2
12-14-2012, 10:09 AM
Don't like the thought of this one bit. Apparently I already have one in my Grand Prix so I guess its already too late for me to voice my opinion. lol. From what I have read I understand that the black box only records about 15 seconds prior to a crash I believe.
#3
12-14-2012, 10:33 AM
I have SnapShot from Progressive in my truck. Its pretty similar to a black box lol.. I don't mind it. Saved me 28% based on my first 30 days of driving it. Since full coverage was just under $200 a month, it dropped my payments by $55 which is fine with me. My estimated savings at renewal is around $600 a year 
It doesn't record everything though, mainly focuses on when you drive, how long you drive, and it records "hard" braking.
It doesn't record everything though, mainly focuses on when you drive, how long you drive, and it records "hard" braking.
#4
12-14-2012, 10:47 AM
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Southeast PA
Posts: 25,136
It's an ODB2 scanner, it picks up every parameter that your car tells it to. Just like the ScanGauge that I have hooked up.
It records speed, rpms, any CELs, etc.
It records speed, rpms, any CELs, etc.
#5
12-14-2012, 10:57 AM
I wouldn't worry about EDR's.There not something thats going to be passing info out any were.It take a special computer just to read one in a toyota an till about 2-3 years ago(the over reaction to unintended acceleration)there was only one in the U.S. an it only use by an FTS.I think the new one's will be able to store up 5 minutes of data(I could be wrong).
Now the snap shot that I'll get.My driving would raise my insurance by%200
.
Now the snap shot that I'll get.My driving would raise my insurance by%200
.
#6
12-14-2012, 11:47 AM
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Mentor, Ohio
Posts: 12,163
My insurance company (State Farm) recently offered a plan similiar to Progressive, drive around with a little ODB-II device and let them collect data about your driving habbits for a chance at lower insurance.
I think it's a good plan as long as it's optional! It could help some people who truly deserve a good driving discount get one.
But for me.... Hmm, yeah, I'm not opting for that one lol....
I think it's a good plan as long as it's optional! It could help some people who truly deserve a good driving discount get one.
But for me.... Hmm, yeah, I'm not opting for that one lol....
#7
12-14-2012, 12:05 PM
Thanks everyone for your posts/opinions/comments & what you think ?
I just don't like something that I own that could be used against me...It's not their device...It's mine..
It does seem that the older I get the more that I have slowed down and concerned more about safety...
I do know `if I had a performance `ride that I would have a difficult time driving slow (especially `if another performance car was @ a traffic light next to me...I know that it's best to just give the over driver the peace sign (lol) or half a peace sign `if they beat you light to light (lol)...
I would hate to be stopped & have a officer use a computer reader & give me a ticket for the infor that was in a black box in MY CAR LOL...Convicted by your own device(s) WoW...(that's all, my mind is tired & empty) the `End
I just don't like something that I own that could be used against me...It's not their device...It's mine
..It does seem that the older I get the more that I have slowed down and concerned more about safety...
I do know `if I had a performance `ride that I would have a difficult time driving slow (especially `if another performance car was @ a traffic light next to me...I know that it's best to just give the over driver the peace sign (lol) or half a peace sign `if they beat you light to light (lol)...
I would hate to be stopped & have a officer use a computer reader & give me a ticket for the infor that was in a black box in MY CAR
LOL...Convicted by your own device(s) WoW...(that's all, my mind is tired & empty) the `End
#8
12-14-2012, 05:00 PM
Most new cars have them. They also have been checked after an accident to see if there was speeding involved.
I for one would not opt for the snapshot since I have a lead foot (mostly on the freeway). "put on my lead boots and take a long long drive" Guess what song...lol.
Here in KY on two lane highways it seems you either have to drive 50-55 in the slow lane of 75-85 in the fast lane...
I for one would not opt for the snapshot since I have a lead foot (mostly on the freeway). "put on my lead boots and take a long long drive" Guess what song...lol.
Here in KY on two lane highways it seems you either have to drive 50-55 in the slow lane of 75-85 in the fast lane...
#9
12-14-2012, 05:21 PM
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Mountains of Utah
Posts: 4,903
I for one don't care to have any of my habits known to others than are in my circle. I will have to always drive around in an old car I guess till I die......
This is just another step towards Big Brother controlling another aspect of your life, see below excerpt from an ABC News story.
The devices, also known as event data recorders, have long been used by investigators to discover the root cause of commercial airplane crashes. In recent years however, automakers have quietly begun installing similar products in more and more cars.
Lt. Gov. Timothy Murray of Massachusetts found out the hard way last year.
He crashed a car he was driving and told police that he was wearing a seatbelt and was not speeding at the time of the crash.
However the black box installed in his car revealed he was actually speeding at 75 miles per hour in a 65 mile per hour zone, before accelerating to more than 100 miles per hour.
According to Scott Ferson, a spokesman for the lieutenant governor's campaign, Murray believes he either fell asleep or hit black ice.
The lieutenant governor was not issued a ticket at the time of the accident. However, after police examined the vehicle's black box they handed Murray a $555 ticket for speeding in excess of 100 miles per hour.
This is just another step towards Big Brother controlling another aspect of your life, see below excerpt from an ABC News story.
The devices, also known as event data recorders, have long been used by investigators to discover the root cause of commercial airplane crashes. In recent years however, automakers have quietly begun installing similar products in more and more cars.
Lt. Gov. Timothy Murray of Massachusetts found out the hard way last year.
He crashed a car he was driving and told police that he was wearing a seatbelt and was not speeding at the time of the crash.
However the black box installed in his car revealed he was actually speeding at 75 miles per hour in a 65 mile per hour zone, before accelerating to more than 100 miles per hour.
According to Scott Ferson, a spokesman for the lieutenant governor's campaign, Murray believes he either fell asleep or hit black ice.
The lieutenant governor was not issued a ticket at the time of the accident. However, after police examined the vehicle's black box they handed Murray a $555 ticket for speeding in excess of 100 miles per hour.
#10
12-14-2012, 05:32 PM
I thought a lot of cars had black boxes already, I'd be against it, it doesn't seem right to be able to put something in your private property that can be used against you. We all know somehow someone will misuse this technology for there own benefit, I would imagine it would be like having lojack on your car without your knowledge, at least at some point it could be.