There are stocks that still trade outside of the stock market. On this one we will have to agree to disagree. I know I lost and that should have never happened. Just odd how the guys that can least afford the loss loose every time and the fat cats that can afford to loose and have the control of the situation win every time. The thing that forced GM and Chrysler into bankruptcy was the fall of banking and insurance. You can't sell a car if no one can get financed. Bankers and insurance got bailed out no questions asked and no strings attached. I won't say that GM and Chrysler could not have been managed better because they could have been.