For the record, Duane's thread covered a lot more than just exhaust. It covered many things. He also mentioned approximate gains and costs for each mod. And he did ask permission. He got the permission of the moderators of this site.

I agree with you that the GP's were much sportier looking over all than the Monte. There's a reason for that. I know for a fact that in the 90's all the way up till recently, GMlabelled the Pontiac division it's "sporty" division. This was published in a number of magazines and newspapers. Like Consumer Reports, Motor Trend, and others. Chevrolet was considered "entry level". Not that I agree with that, but that's GM's words, not mine.

GM placed a heirarchy to all their divisions:

1. Cadillac
2. Buick
3. Oldsmobile
4. Pontiac
5. Chevrolet

Again, that's GM's ranking...not mine. Of course Olds is now gone. It had become redundant with no core group of buyers anymore. But back to the point, you're right in that there's no hope in getting GM/Chevy to give the buyers what they want unless we tell them. For years people demanded the return of V8 engines and RWD. We're now getting that. Not on the Monte of course, but that's something that people can start demanding of Chevy also. With all the retro models being produced by various companies, I for one would love to see a new retro Monte produced based on the 4th gens. Of course, it would have to be done right with a V8 and RWD. (note: yes I've seen that so-called concept retro Monte. That'sactually a Mopar altered using MS Paint).

 

chevy 4 life.
gonna prob get bowtie as first tat

 

Well it has many a reason.
Like I said I always liked the looks of the 2000+'s, but not the association to NASCAR, which kept me away.
I am a AVID GM person and mainly the Chevrolet Division.
Chevrolet 2 doors??? They got rid on the S Truck in which I owned 5 of them in 20 years as daily's.
Last S was a 2 Door, 2 wheel Blazer, lockered rear, wynjammer charged that with 100K on it, gas prices going up at 16 MPG's at best I traded for a Cobalt.
The Cobalt was too small and the wife hated it.
So goes a 07 Balt for a 04 Monte which is the chase car for our 1987 SS when it goes to long distance shows.
Just about everyone in the Monte Club uses a 2000+ as a secondary to their 4th gens.
I didn't know the 2000+'s had so many odd quirks before I purchased it and others I had talked to that owned them didn't lead onto it and having a GP in the driveway allready, I made the mistake the platforms being the same would yield the same results, which it did not.
I'll get the Monte pinned down to where its what it should have been and I HAD hoped these types forums would short cut some of it. Right now I'm too busy with the final aspects of finishing the 87 up and time/money isn't something I have alot of leftover for the 04.

 

Sportier driving, not looking and I have believed that since the mid 60's alikes came out. Chevrolets always looked better and were just a tad off performance wise in all aspects, but not with the margin I'm seeing now.
And actually the divisional thing you brought up has also been in place since the 50's.

Caddy was pure luxury with no holds barred.
Olds/ Buicks were the luxury added to Chevrolets for the old people.
Pontiac was GM's sport division.
Chevrolet was everybody's car.

 

If you're so unhappy with the way things are and have been. Do something about it. We're all here on equal, level ground. Do some write-ups for the web site on information you've researched. From what I've read of your posts, you've obviously looked around the net some to find answers to your questions. Share the love. (is what other people tell me)

Pontiac was always better then Chevy ever since they assembled several individual car companies under the GM roof. Like Taz posted, Caddy was at the top. Chevy was at the bottom. With Buick, Olds, and Pontiac in between. Look at the Buick GNs. They can whip most factory Chevies still and they're 20 years old now. If you wanted a "better"car, you upgraded to another branch of the GM family. I don't think there is as much of a difference between what's left of the GM family as there used to be. But there's still some difference in the cars, how they perform, and handle.

I know if I were looking for a tech forum, MCF isn't the place to be. Not that there isn't some great information shared here. There is. And I wouldn't change MCF from the way it is now. We're all friends here. There's no bashing and no name calling. Sure you'll find some discussings where some members may not agree. You have two different view points. And everyone's entitied to have one. How boring would it be if all of us loved the color red? As an example.

I'll start a post, "I love the color blue." And every participating member will reply they love the color blue too. See my point. Some may reply they like blue, but they love green. Other's will say they hate blue, yellow is their favorite color. And so on. That's what makes things interesting.

But if you've found information where the 3800 V6 isn't worth sinking cash in to, share what you've found.

Don't just chime in, you don't see any good information on any Monte web site about modding the 3.8 or the Monte Carlo in general. Be a pro-active member.

 

[/quote]

If you're so unhappy with the way things are and have been. Do something about it. Do some write-ups for the web site on information you've researched.



I know if I were looking for a tech forum, MCF isn't the place to be. Not that there isn't some great information shared here. There is. And I wouldn't change MCF from the way it is now. We're all friends here. There's no bashing and no name calling.

I'll start a post, "I love the color blue."

But if you've found information where the 3800 V6 isn't worth sinking cash in to, share what you've found.

Don't just chime in, you don't see any good information on any Monte web site about modding the 3.8 or the Monte Carlo in general. Be a pro-active member.




[/quote]

WOW, you people read into things and add what you like. Did I say I was unhappy with it, NO I DIDN'T, I merely was answering what I saw to the OP original topic. I do find it odd that none of the Monte Forums have a good tech area for NA, hell even the forced inducted sections are so garbled full of opinions, its hard one, for a outsider to sift through whats true and what people opinion the way to go.

Well what would you like me to do, write true articles, maybe with the help from others only to have then turn into wild arguements, because I all ready have seen that. Or as you say leave it alone? There is bashing here all over when it comes to power tech, but as of now according to what I've been told, they let it slide because of whatever reasons.

Where did I say a 3800 wasn't worth the cash needed to build.
Hell if I took that stand it would be with any motor. To each his own when it comes to building a motor. Just don't tell me XXX is the best way to go, when it isn't, but to you it is, because nothing else was tried.

I'm sorry I answered the OP's post honestly.

The color blue is my favorite color[sm=smiley2.gif]

 

Yup, Cort,
I started when stock cars were no longer used.
It took skills and plenty of them for a car with much less power, handled poorly to beat one that had way more power and handled much better.
Now you got equally prepped cars and you win by pure luck,team money, guessing mileage etc, which they call stradegy or you find ways to cheat like ole #3 did to get on the top of Neckcar.
Yes people I do believe once you got used to how they do it, even a CAVEMAN could win in NASCAR, no skills are needed, you just need to learn on to play the game within the rules and be the best at playing the game.

 

Blue bites! (j/k)


This is the reason I've made no bones about sharing my dislike for the 3400 engine. Horribly unreliable engine. My 99 Grand Am GT was a great car except for the engine. Cost me around $10,000 in engine repairs over the 8 years I owned it. Never in an accident. Never raced. Only mod was a K&N drop in filter, which doesn't really qualify as a mod IMO. I've owned my 3800 (L67) equipped Monte for over a year now, and haven't had an engine problem yet. (knock on wood). I've had the ISS problem and the temperature guage go, but so far that's about it. (knocking on wood again).




I don't like the idea of everyone driving the same race car just with different stickers. I'm supposed to believe that a Ford Fusion (or Focus, or what ever the hell Ford uses) would actually make a good race car? The race car doesn't look anything like a Fusion except for the headlight stickers and taillight stickers. There's so manysponsor stickers on the car, they have to spell out the name of the car on the front bumper. So you can tell what it's supposed to be. That's one thing the Monte had. At least it was the same shape as the race car.

I wish they would return toforcingthe auto companies to design and produce their stock race cars. Hence the "stock car" in the name Nascar. So many great, classic muscle cars were developed because of that. Now it's turned into a moving advertisement for any model the company feels like pushing. Even a four banger if they wanted to. End of rant. I feel better now.

 

WOW, you people read into things and add what you like. Did I say I was unhappy with it, NO I DIDN'T,

Now if that isn't "Read something in there that wasn't put in there" I don't know what is.

I read through every post on this thread. It's evident you're looking for something more............... and even saying you can't find it on THIS and other Monte web sites, but were finding more information on the Pontiac W-bodied web sites.

All I was referrring to was pony up if you think there's something missing on here.