my monte is giving me a headache
#1
12-01-2013, 07:38 PM
my monte is giving me a headache
hey guys i have a monte carlo that i let sit for a while due to some overheating issues.
well its been a few months and i finally got the motivation to work on this is what ive done so far and some problems that still persist and a few that i have no clue where to start.
Heating issues:
i parked it because it was overheating.
pressure tested it and it turned out the water pump was leaking. Replaced it. Pressure tested it again and let it sit for a few minutes. no signs of leaking
bled the system. car temp was fine after that. a little smoke in the exhaust. cant really tell if the taste was sweet or not i felt like it was more of steam. took it for a spin started heating up at the first light. took a hard right turn to get off the road into a parking lot and BAM temp was fine. let it sit in the parking lot on idle for a few minutes. no more smoke or steam. took it home after that. as soon as i parked it started heating up to the notch right before the redline.
shut it off and heard a squealing coming from the radiator hose by the thermostat but on the radiator side of the hose.
thats as far as i got with that.
More Issues.
Water on passenger side floor not a flood but its pretty damp. the fans in the cabin do not work. i can hear the compressor kick in but no fans at all. not the highest setting. Heating does not work as well.
they both used to work perfectly. but after a trip to the beach i guess thats when the problem started.
also i cant rev past 4rmps? maybe a vacuum leak i have no idea
and from time to time ill have this blinking check engine light. sometimes when i floor the pedal to hard and lately its been happening at idle.
any help is apprecciated. i think that is all the problems i am having for now.
haha
thanks yall.
well its been a few months and i finally got the motivation to work on this is what ive done so far and some problems that still persist and a few that i have no clue where to start.
Heating issues:
i parked it because it was overheating.
pressure tested it and it turned out the water pump was leaking. Replaced it. Pressure tested it again and let it sit for a few minutes. no signs of leaking
bled the system. car temp was fine after that. a little smoke in the exhaust. cant really tell if the taste was sweet or not i felt like it was more of steam. took it for a spin started heating up at the first light. took a hard right turn to get off the road into a parking lot and BAM temp was fine. let it sit in the parking lot on idle for a few minutes. no more smoke or steam. took it home after that. as soon as i parked it started heating up to the notch right before the redline.
shut it off and heard a squealing coming from the radiator hose by the thermostat but on the radiator side of the hose.
thats as far as i got with that.
More Issues.
Water on passenger side floor not a flood but its pretty damp. the fans in the cabin do not work. i can hear the compressor kick in but no fans at all. not the highest setting. Heating does not work as well.
they both used to work perfectly. but after a trip to the beach i guess thats when the problem started.
also i cant rev past 4rmps? maybe a vacuum leak i have no idea
and from time to time ill have this blinking check engine light. sometimes when i floor the pedal to hard and lately its been happening at idle.
any help is apprecciated. i think that is all the problems i am having for now.
haha
thanks yall.
#2
12-01-2013, 08:29 PM
Catalytic converter maybe clogged. Don't drive it or anything with a blinking engine light, when it is blinking it is causing damage.
Water on passenger floor as rain water or coolant? Also year and engine size will help.
Water on passenger floor as rain water or coolant? Also year and engine size will help.
#3
12-01-2013, 09:39 PM
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Brockville Ontario
Posts: 3,052
Did you replace the thermostat, it could be locking open or closed.
Bad cat could be a valid concern, they are prone to failure on our cars depending on your model year, worth a once over by a muffler shop
Can you gain access to a code reader? if the codes are stored you may be able to find out what codes have been thrown and track down the issue.
Coolant on passenger side floor is generally a sign of a leaking heater core (at least in all the older cars I've owned through the years) but you didn't specify it was water or coolant, water could be sunroof leaking (if you have one) or possible rubber is gone on your door allowing it to leak through, just some possible suggestions. With your fan, it is either the fuse for the fan blower, or the blower itself (more than likely) or the switch itself, your local auto repair store can diagnose this fairly easily and quickly, or you can do it yourself, I personally don't know where to start with taking my dash apart and when the wife's car started acting up with the heat I took it to a garage and had to replace the blower motor and also the hot/cold slider as it was stuck on cold only.
Bad cat could be a valid concern, they are prone to failure on our cars depending on your model year, worth a once over by a muffler shop
Can you gain access to a code reader? if the codes are stored you may be able to find out what codes have been thrown and track down the issue.
Coolant on passenger side floor is generally a sign of a leaking heater core (at least in all the older cars I've owned through the years) but you didn't specify it was water or coolant, water could be sunroof leaking (if you have one) or possible rubber is gone on your door allowing it to leak through, just some possible suggestions. With your fan, it is either the fuse for the fan blower, or the blower itself (more than likely) or the switch itself, your local auto repair store can diagnose this fairly easily and quickly, or you can do it yourself, I personally don't know where to start with taking my dash apart and when the wife's car started acting up with the heat I took it to a garage and had to replace the blower motor and also the hot/cold slider as it was stuck on cold only.
#4
12-01-2013, 09:56 PM
yall are awesome thanks
sorry for not specifying i have a 2004 3.4 liter or 3400 series ls?
no sunroof. it did rain recently. so maybe that is it. it doesnt smell like anything. so i guess its water
a clogged cat.. i cant believe that hasnt crossed my mind.
should i go ahead and change the thermostat?
i want to get this overheating under control.
sorry for not specifying i have a 2004 3.4 liter or 3400 series ls?
no sunroof. it did rain recently. so maybe that is it. it doesnt smell like anything. so i guess its water
a clogged cat.. i cant believe that hasnt crossed my mind.
should i go ahead and change the thermostat?
i want to get this overheating under control.
#5
12-12-2013, 08:33 AM
Yeah it couldn't hurt to change the thermostat, water on the passenger floor could be it leaking through the cabin air filter opening, to my knowledge there is a rubber strip that can move and allow that to happen, I'd suspect the blower motor is bad, mine had one before I even bought it, and I just had to replace it again last year, mine was fine one day, and next day it wouldn't work unless you hit it with a wrench, one other issue someone had was the ignition switch not allowing the blower to work at all. I have no idea what a squeaking from the radiator area could be.
#6
12-23-2013, 05:38 PM
I don't know if you ever figured out your water problem but here is something mike wrote up that you might want to look into for your car. Hope this helps
https://montecarloforum.com/forum/si...lem-fix-26663/
https://montecarloforum.com/forum/si...lem-fix-26663/
#8
12-23-2013, 08:51 PM
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Mentor, Ohio
Posts: 12,156
OK, here the easy stuff:
- Water on the passenger side floor, read the thread below:
https://montecarloforum.com/forum/si...lem-fix-26663/
- You have only 1 fan for the cabin/hvac (called a blower motor). Your problem is more then likely one or both a blower motor and/or blower motor resistor. Both located under the passenger side of the dash and may have failed due to the same issue causing the water in the passenger foot well.
Quick test on the blower motor, pull it out and take it direct to the battery, if it spins, replace your blower motor resistor. But first, fix the water on the floor problem.
- Your engine problems. First, as suggested, get to an ODB-II scanner, a good one that can read current and past codes. Find out what codes are popping up, as the car is clearly hinting at it's problem.
Now here's some info I can mention, just observation based on your symptoms thus far (but before going nuts, get the codes first).
- The cats are prone to fail on 01-02 Montes as GM had a bad batch of cats that began breaking down prematurely. This is documented in extended warranty article (now expired) titled "#05551: Special Policy Adjustment - Catalytic Converter". Outside of those years, the cats on these cars are not prone to high failure.
- That being said, i won't 100% rule out a cat, the lack of power suggests that. Quick/shade tree mechanic test for the cat would be to pop off the upstream O2 senor out of the rear manifold, allowing exhaust to vent, take the car on a small trip, see what happens (keep in mind, with the O2 disconnected and out of the rear mani, keep the test brief). If the condition improved, odds are you're looking at a cat.
But, here's what concerns me the MOST. You are noting steam coming out the exhaust. By design, most, if not all, modern cars will exhaust small amounts of condensation (as the gases being expelled mixing with fresh air, form water). But if you are seeing abnormal "clouds" of white smoke, this is a good sign of a failed head gasket. It has a crack in the gasket between a cylinder and water jacket, if coolant enters the cylinder, it will result in lost power as coolant will not ignite and lowers your detonation, creates steam along the way as it exits the system.
The other situation that can happen is that if the cylinder compression gases are HIGHER then the pressure from the cooling system, those compression gases force into your cooling system, causing a big air pocket that when it's stuck at the T-stat, it will cause your temp to read like an over heat (even if it's not truly over heating). Also, the noise you hear from the radiator hose could be a sign of the cooling system being OVER pressurized from combustion gases, thus it looks for the weakest spot to relieve pressure (I blew a radiator side tank gasket on a Grand Am due to a head gasket and this problem). Eventually prolonged exposure to over pressurization will cause something else to give.
Two things you can check to see what's going on:
1 - Once you can get the blower motor working, run the heat, if you go from hot air blowing and suddenly it's cold/ambient outside temps and your temp gauge is climbing, you have an air pocket.
2 - Carry a ratchet or wrench the correct size to open the bleed screw that is on the pipe coming straight up from the water pump housing. When the temp gauge is climbing beyond operating temp (and if you can try item #1), pull over, leave the car running. Pop the hood, slowly open the bleed screw. If you have an air pocket, air or steam will come out of the bleeder. Leave it open until a stream of coolant shoots out.
If you find yourself doing step 2 more then once or twice, odds are, you have a bad head gasket. Again,a blown head gasket can also cause your low power/performance issues (but so can other things, so some due diligence needs done here).
You can also check for a failed head gasket by doing a compression check on all cylinders. This is different from a radiator pressure test (and it is possible to have a bad head gasket as I described and still hold pressure with a radiator pressure tester).
Something else to consider for the poor performance, read over the thread below (specifically spark plugs):
https://montecarloforum.com/forum/ge...0-miles-46078/
If you are talking the park/neutral switch, that serves ONE purpose. It is designed so you can only try to start the car while it's in park or neutral. If you are not in gear, the PCM has a rev limiter designed to prevent you from over revving the engine and when you are in gear, it has rev limits programmed to not exceed certain thresholds.
These cars hold the heater core and evap core in what GM calls an HVAC Module. In older cars, you are right, a failed heater core typically leaks coolant on the carpet of the car (and you'll smell the coolant too). Many modern cars (such as my old '94 Grand Am and the '00+ Montes), they are designed that if the heater core blows all (or most) of the coolant will exit the condensation drain, which dumps the coolant outside of the firewall, leaving your carpets dry (but you may have an antifreeze odor from the vents).
- Water on the passenger side floor, read the thread below:
https://montecarloforum.com/forum/si...lem-fix-26663/
- You have only 1 fan for the cabin/hvac (called a blower motor). Your problem is more then likely one or both a blower motor and/or blower motor resistor. Both located under the passenger side of the dash and may have failed due to the same issue causing the water in the passenger foot well.
Quick test on the blower motor, pull it out and take it direct to the battery, if it spins, replace your blower motor resistor. But first, fix the water on the floor problem.
- Your engine problems. First, as suggested, get to an ODB-II scanner, a good one that can read current and past codes. Find out what codes are popping up, as the car is clearly hinting at it's problem.
Now here's some info I can mention, just observation based on your symptoms thus far (but before going nuts, get the codes first).
- The cats are prone to fail on 01-02 Montes as GM had a bad batch of cats that began breaking down prematurely. This is documented in extended warranty article (now expired) titled "#05551: Special Policy Adjustment - Catalytic Converter". Outside of those years, the cats on these cars are not prone to high failure.
- That being said, i won't 100% rule out a cat, the lack of power suggests that. Quick/shade tree mechanic test for the cat would be to pop off the upstream O2 senor out of the rear manifold, allowing exhaust to vent, take the car on a small trip, see what happens (keep in mind, with the O2 disconnected and out of the rear mani, keep the test brief). If the condition improved, odds are you're looking at a cat.
But, here's what concerns me the MOST. You are noting steam coming out the exhaust. By design, most, if not all, modern cars will exhaust small amounts of condensation (as the gases being expelled mixing with fresh air, form water). But if you are seeing abnormal "clouds" of white smoke, this is a good sign of a failed head gasket. It has a crack in the gasket between a cylinder and water jacket, if coolant enters the cylinder, it will result in lost power as coolant will not ignite and lowers your detonation, creates steam along the way as it exits the system.
The other situation that can happen is that if the cylinder compression gases are HIGHER then the pressure from the cooling system, those compression gases force into your cooling system, causing a big air pocket that when it's stuck at the T-stat, it will cause your temp to read like an over heat (even if it's not truly over heating). Also, the noise you hear from the radiator hose could be a sign of the cooling system being OVER pressurized from combustion gases, thus it looks for the weakest spot to relieve pressure (I blew a radiator side tank gasket on a Grand Am due to a head gasket and this problem). Eventually prolonged exposure to over pressurization will cause something else to give.
Two things you can check to see what's going on:
1 - Once you can get the blower motor working, run the heat, if you go from hot air blowing and suddenly it's cold/ambient outside temps and your temp gauge is climbing, you have an air pocket.
2 - Carry a ratchet or wrench the correct size to open the bleed screw that is on the pipe coming straight up from the water pump housing. When the temp gauge is climbing beyond operating temp (and if you can try item #1), pull over, leave the car running. Pop the hood, slowly open the bleed screw. If you have an air pocket, air or steam will come out of the bleeder. Leave it open until a stream of coolant shoots out.
If you find yourself doing step 2 more then once or twice, odds are, you have a bad head gasket. Again,a blown head gasket can also cause your low power/performance issues (but so can other things, so some due diligence needs done here).
You can also check for a failed head gasket by doing a compression check on all cylinders. This is different from a radiator pressure test (and it is possible to have a bad head gasket as I described and still hold pressure with a radiator pressure tester).
Something else to consider for the poor performance, read over the thread below (specifically spark plugs):
https://montecarloforum.com/forum/ge...0-miles-46078/
If you are talking the park/neutral switch, that serves ONE purpose. It is designed so you can only try to start the car while it's in park or neutral. If you are not in gear, the PCM has a rev limiter designed to prevent you from over revving the engine and when you are in gear, it has rev limits programmed to not exceed certain thresholds.
These cars hold the heater core and evap core in what GM calls an HVAC Module. In older cars, you are right, a failed heater core typically leaks coolant on the carpet of the car (and you'll smell the coolant too). Many modern cars (such as my old '94 Grand Am and the '00+ Montes), they are designed that if the heater core blows all (or most) of the coolant will exit the condensation drain, which dumps the coolant outside of the firewall, leaving your carpets dry (but you may have an antifreeze odor from the vents).
Last edited by The_Maniac; 12-23-2013 at 08:56 PM.
#9
12-30-2013, 03:11 PM
Wow thanks guys for all the help. I'm still ruling stuff out. Right now the problem that I am having is finding the blower motor resistor
I found the blower motor module
But I can't find the resistor.
I really hope it doesn't end up being a head gasket
Although I wouldn't be surprised.
I found the blower motor module
But I can't find the resistor.
I really hope it doesn't end up being a head gasket
Although I wouldn't be surprised.
#10
12-30-2013, 03:44 PM
I feel really dumb. Is the blower motor module the same thing as a same thing as a resistor?
It was held in by two plastic pegs that I had to snap off.
Also I pulled out the blower motor it does not spin freely? Like not at all
Does that mean it's toast?
Before I invest money in this I want to be 100 percent
It was held in by two plastic pegs that I had to snap off.
Also I pulled out the blower motor it does not spin freely? Like not at all
Does that mean it's toast?
Before I invest money in this I want to be 100 percent