Help diagnosing N/A 3800
#1
Help diagnosing N/A 3800
Problems.. (I think they are all related to a single issue)
* No check engine light. Only service engine soon. Remember its an N/A 38.
* Takes a long time to start. To the point where I turn about 15 seconds/ 3times at least before it will start. Took 4, 5, 6 times a few times..
* Ton of white smoke once it finally starts
* Really strange, almost sweet smelling exhaust even without the "white smoke".
* Wants to sputter out once the engine is warm. But "catches itself" and ramps back to normal idle.
* Oil pressure gauge going whacky..
* Bunch of white smoke if I rev it 4k or so..
* Tanish goo under oil cap and oil in radiator. (Yep, its that kinda party... UIM/LIM gaskets. Im actually hoping this is it.)
Im really hoping someone can confirm these are all symptoms of the gasket deal.
-But please tell me what anything else I could benefit from here.
Thanks a ton..
* No check engine light. Only service engine soon. Remember its an N/A 38.
* Takes a long time to start. To the point where I turn about 15 seconds/ 3times at least before it will start. Took 4, 5, 6 times a few times..
* Ton of white smoke once it finally starts
* Really strange, almost sweet smelling exhaust even without the "white smoke".
* Wants to sputter out once the engine is warm. But "catches itself" and ramps back to normal idle.
* Oil pressure gauge going whacky..
* Bunch of white smoke if I rev it 4k or so..
* Tanish goo under oil cap and oil in radiator. (Yep, its that kinda party... UIM/LIM gaskets. Im actually hoping this is it.)
Im really hoping someone can confirm these are all symptoms of the gasket deal.
-But please tell me what anything else I could benefit from here.
Thanks a ton..
Last edited by wht02monte; 12-20-2017 at 11:22 AM.
#2
Sounds very much like gaskets issues. Headgaskets aren't as common on the 3800, though the smoke does lean that way.
CELs are usually for something emissions related (think sensors), and SES lights are more serious.
CELs are usually for something emissions related (think sensors), and SES lights are more serious.
#3
The engine is ingesting coolant somehow. I seem to remember the egr gases can burn a hole from the egr passageway into the coolant passages. This is all part of the intake manifold. Remove the ducting attached to the throttle body. Pressurize the cooling system with a pressure tester (borrow from autozone). Open the throttle and look inside with a flashlight. If you see coolant, replace the intake manifold (upper).
Last edited by PatternDayTrader; 12-20-2017 at 02:01 PM.
#4
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Mentor, Ohio
Posts: 12,163
This sounds like a couple of things.
It could be head gaskets but I would NOT jump there first.
PatternDayTrader it a very common issue and is spot on with a way to diagnose the issue!
The EGR hase a "stove" pipe that gets hot and eventually causes the upper intake plastic to become brittle and form a leak between the EGR and coolant passages for the throttle body.
The 100% right way to fix it is replace the upper intake and upper intake gaskets (there are good and full kits for that).
But two alternatives:
- Upgrade to the L26/3800 S3 aluminum upper intake (I have a pretty big write up on my swap to that).
- Block the coolant passages on the lower intake. Some threaded plugs, tap the lower intake while it is on the engine, plug it and be done. To go the extra mile, fill the passages on the upper intake with JB Weld.
Blocking those passages has next to zero effect. I did it on my Monte when I did some early mods as a mod. We later did that on my dad's Grand Prix, due to the body condition he wanted to keep the cost of repair down as low as possible, never failed. Plus for those concerned about changes in coolant flow, it was not until I switched to the L26 UIM a couple years ago, I noticed something interesting. The factory casting on my old black/plastic UIM was so bad, it restricted the flow of coolant to the throttle body to near nothing!
Food for thought.
It could be head gaskets but I would NOT jump there first.
PatternDayTrader it a very common issue and is spot on with a way to diagnose the issue!
The EGR hase a "stove" pipe that gets hot and eventually causes the upper intake plastic to become brittle and form a leak between the EGR and coolant passages for the throttle body.
The 100% right way to fix it is replace the upper intake and upper intake gaskets (there are good and full kits for that).
But two alternatives:
- Upgrade to the L26/3800 S3 aluminum upper intake (I have a pretty big write up on my swap to that).
- Block the coolant passages on the lower intake. Some threaded plugs, tap the lower intake while it is on the engine, plug it and be done. To go the extra mile, fill the passages on the upper intake with JB Weld.
Blocking those passages has next to zero effect. I did it on my Monte when I did some early mods as a mod. We later did that on my dad's Grand Prix, due to the body condition he wanted to keep the cost of repair down as low as possible, never failed. Plus for those concerned about changes in coolant flow, it was not until I switched to the L26 UIM a couple years ago, I noticed something interesting. The factory casting on my old black/plastic UIM was so bad, it restricted the flow of coolant to the throttle body to near nothing!
Food for thought.
#5
I should have added this and dont be too hard on me that I didnt BUT.....
The car has been sitting over a year, only added 3 gallons to an almost empty tank and actually now that ive had it running a few times, the white smoke is almost non existant... Still there but NOTHING like when I first got it started..
The car has been sitting over a year, only added 3 gallons to an almost empty tank and actually now that ive had it running a few times, the white smoke is almost non existant... Still there but NOTHING like when I first got it started..
#6
This sounds like a couple of things.
It could be head gaskets but I would NOT jump there first.
PatternDayTrader it a very common issue and is spot on with a way to diagnose the issue!
The EGR hase a "stove" pipe that gets hot and eventually causes the upper intake plastic to become brittle and form a leak between the EGR and coolant passages for the throttle body.
The 100% right way to fix it is replace the upper intake and upper intake gaskets (there are good and full kits for that).
But two alternatives:
- Upgrade to the L26/3800 S3 aluminum upper intake (I have a pretty big write up on my swap to that).
- Block the coolant passages on the lower intake. Some threaded plugs, tap the lower intake while it is on the engine, plug it and be done. To go the extra mile, fill the passages on the upper intake with JB Weld.
Blocking those passages has next to zero effect. I did it on my Monte when I did some early mods as a mod. We later did that on my dad's Grand Prix, due to the body condition he wanted to keep the cost of repair down as low as possible, never failed. Plus for those concerned about changes in coolant flow, it was not until I switched to the L26 UIM a couple years ago, I noticed something interesting. The factory casting on my old black/plastic UIM was so bad, it restricted the flow of coolant to the throttle body to near nothing!
Food for thought.
It could be head gaskets but I would NOT jump there first.
PatternDayTrader it a very common issue and is spot on with a way to diagnose the issue!
The EGR hase a "stove" pipe that gets hot and eventually causes the upper intake plastic to become brittle and form a leak between the EGR and coolant passages for the throttle body.
The 100% right way to fix it is replace the upper intake and upper intake gaskets (there are good and full kits for that).
But two alternatives:
- Upgrade to the L26/3800 S3 aluminum upper intake (I have a pretty big write up on my swap to that).
- Block the coolant passages on the lower intake. Some threaded plugs, tap the lower intake while it is on the engine, plug it and be done. To go the extra mile, fill the passages on the upper intake with JB Weld.
Blocking those passages has next to zero effect. I did it on my Monte when I did some early mods as a mod. We later did that on my dad's Grand Prix, due to the body condition he wanted to keep the cost of repair down as low as possible, never failed. Plus for those concerned about changes in coolant flow, it was not until I switched to the L26 UIM a couple years ago, I noticed something interesting. The factory casting on my old black/plastic UIM was so bad, it restricted the flow of coolant to the throttle body to near nothing!
Food for thought.
Upgrade to the aluminum intake. I had the gaskets replaced when I first got my Grand Prix, knowing this was a common concern. I ended up replacing the engine within 20K miles.
#7
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Mentor, Ohio
Posts: 12,163
If it sat for almost a year and you just added gas, I wonder if condensation/water developed in the tank. That's a good amount if it put large amounts of white smoke out.
#8
Like others I agree a it's coolant leak, weather its sucking in thru the intake or coming thru head weather cracked or a gasket. I would get a coolant pressure testers and pump up the system to about 12 psi and see what happens. If it starts smoking again and is not building pressure it would be a intake weather gasket or intake. If it builds pressure above 12 psi on gauge and continue to climb I would remove head and go accordingly. Should be able to rent\ borrow pressure tester at parts store
#9
IMO, I'd buy all fresh top end gaskets (heads, intake, etc) and a replacement intake (Dorman makes one if you don't want to mess with the L26 one) and just refresh the whole top end all in one shot - assuming you plan to keep the car. You also should flush out the cooling system and block as best you can to get all of the oil / sludge out. I'd also pour through some cheap oil through the pan to try and get rid of as much excess coolant as you can.
I wouldn't drive or run it anymore how it is either. I'd be afraid of hydrolocking it with that much coolant or spinning a bearing.
Only thing you may be left with is the gauge issue.
I wouldn't drive or run it anymore how it is either. I'd be afraid of hydrolocking it with that much coolant or spinning a bearing.
Only thing you may be left with is the gauge issue.
Last edited by bumpin96monte; 12-26-2017 at 04:33 PM.
#10
IMO, I'd buy all fresh top end gaskets (heads, intake, etc) and a replacement intake (Dorman makes one if you don't want to mess with the L26 one) and just refresh the whole top end all in one shot - assuming you plan to keep the car. You also should flush out the cooling system and block as best you can to get all of the oil / sludge out. I'd also pour through some cheap oil through the pan to try and get rid of as much excess coolant as you can.
I wouldn't drive or run it anymore how it is either. I'd be afraid of hydrolocking it with that much coolant or spinning a bearing.
Only thing you may be left with is the gauge issue.
I wouldn't drive or run it anymore how it is either. I'd be afraid of hydrolocking it with that much coolant or spinning a bearing.
Only thing you may be left with is the gauge issue.