Yep, you are a hard core seasoned veteran with from what it sounds like, some great days behind you. The attraction had to be immense in that you pop a multi-thousand $$ power plant or / tranny and you are right back out there asap up to your eyes in the race again the very next event, wow. . Have to admire you racers, you are a special breed entertaining us spectators, giving us a few jaw dropping thrills as you lay you life and bank accounts on the line for the personal big rush this has to give you men / women. I guess thats why we low level racers throw a few $$ into our cars and pretend we can do what you do on the cheap. Our Montes are definitely toys with respect to what you all built, but hey we all need have to get our jollys one way or the other. Cops chasing the crowd of street racers away, lining up to obvious killer builds hoping we can somehow snake out a win, thus this is where we are now in our later years, preserving our youth via cool cars. You mention peeps walk right on by your Monte at car shows. And you have a very nice, squared away Monte, which crys, "come over here. look at me" and still few takers.About the only way I get people over at events is to start the engine and give it a few revs, let the turbo spool up, blow off valve talking. We for sure get no respect, we are like the Dangerfields of comedy, our Montes...ehhh!! I asked the cabbie to take me to a place for a good time, he took me to my house, ehhhh!

 

Well done Rodney.....I love his story about going to the doctor and hearing his health was poor, so he wanted a second opinion. Doc says you are ugly too. Barrrrummmp. But yeah, I went WAY too far in debt and in hindsight made SO many mistakes, which is typical of amateurs trying to be professionals. I used every day of vacation to go to racing events. This is an example of dedication. We left on Tuesday morning after putting a new motor in. Nashville to St. Louis because they let the Pros test on Wednesday getting ready for the Nationals in Memphis. So we get up there, and lose the motor on the first pass. Load up, drive back to Nashville, stay up and change back to the old motor, then drive to Memphis and get there at 2 am. Q1 is at 8am that morning. I am so out of it I cannot even find the staging beams. The starter is motioning me up with his hand frantically. Finally I find the pre-stage light, and cruise control takes over. I manage to stage and get down the track, then go back to the trailer and go to sleep. Went 3 rounds, so it wa a long weekend, spent a lot of money, and didn't make a dime. The thrill of it all, but wouldn't trade it for anything. Just wish I could go back and know what I know now. Here she is.

1923T - 496 alcohol injected.

 

When you're pushing the limits of a transmission (which doesn't take much with a factory 240 lb ft rating with people doing double to triple that), you absolutely have to have some kind of involvement with people pushing them and racing them. As before, this isn't a glide where you can just go buy aftermarket parts for every item to make everything stronger. There are only a few hard parts available from a few companies (oddly enough- only from the companies that actually build performance 4t65s) to upgrade, the rest is in the setup / modifications to keep it together.

If you're so confident in Jegs or Monster, try asking them what their quickest 4t65 car is. Theres a reason literally no one thats actually involved with high power 3800s/LS4s is reccomending these places.

Do you have any evidence of people running their transmission in a high power W body? Id be happy to provide examples of ZZP/TEP transmissions in the 10s or better.

Ever asked them how much 4t65 feedback they get at Nationals? Id bet that number is absolutely zero. There are no common classes these cars are competitive in, so you virtually never see FWD w body cars competing in these major national events.

The 3800/LS4 drag racing scene is generally limited to people setting records on test and tune nights or at events held specifically for these cars. Ive never once seen ATI or Monster at one of those events for w bodies (or one of their transmissions in the top cars for that matter), and I've been to nearly a dozen through the years.

The problem is those 'issues' they address are the ones daily drivers are running into - not the ones people drag racing at 2, 3, 4x stock power run into.

You should ask them what the quickest car their trans is in. Id bet you'll just hear crickets. Theres a reason why literally no one in the 3800 / LS4 drag racing community is reccomending shops like this.

If these places really are upgrading the main failure points (but for some reason forgot to mention those upgrades on their list), where do you think they're getting the hard parts from - the same companies that ive been reccomending that worked to develop those exact parts.



To be clear, I'm not saying no one else can build these other than the primary few, I'm just saying its misleading to newcomers to think they can bolt on a high hp turbo setup and just go to any old rwd shop to get a 4t65 thatll reliably hold (Monster / ATI / Jegs). Thats an awful lot of money to gamble with when we have a handful of companies with a proven track record.

 

I am not understanding what point you are trying to make. For the average Monte Carlo owner with a 4T65e, and even just a few mods most any of these places should do just fine. The people you are talking about are probably less than 100 that need what you describe. Not a lot of profit in that. This started off with my ordeal trying to get an upgraded STOCK tranny for my MC. And you even mentioned that there is a problem getting pure race parts (I assume like titanium shafts). So thanks for the info, but I fail to see the importance.

 

Simply that someone needing a performance build on a 4t65 should stick to the shops with a proven track record on them for the past 2 decades. Rather than rolling the dice on a rwd trans shop with a big name and hoping for the best.

I never disagreed with that and believe I've already said so at least once above. Plenty of people out there with stock daily driver rebuilds from reputable local shops that hold up just fine. Rebuidling it to spec, or spec with a few tweaks for longevity isn't complicated.

Theres a lot more than 100 people that need performance built 4t65s. The problem is that the 4t65 was barely adequate for the L67 (as the LS4 crowd found out) in stock form. The engines they're bolted to however are very robust and can make lots more power very easily. A bolt on turbo kit for a L36/L67/LS4 will practically double its power and make life miserable for the transmission if its actually being used to its potential.

Even without a turbo, the L67/L32 is nototious for being easy to make good power with mild mods (E85, meth injection, or an intercooler, etc) and a big pulley drop.

I'm just trying to clarify (for those reading now and searching in the future) that if they're looking for a transmission for a modded car, they shouldn't go with one of these generic RWD trans shops that has very little direct experience in hard use 4t65s. Don't let the giant list of 'improvements' fool you into thinking it can handle lots more power or hard track use.

Safest bet is to stick to the companies with a proven track record with this transmission if you don't perosnally know someone capable.

 

These shops never claim that they are for high HP cars, they just are saying they are fixing factory problems and will add to the longevity. One or two offered an HD version for more money, and I assume it was clutch packs and shaft hardening. If you want to mod a FWD have fun, but personally I feel you are swimming upstream. But, to each their own. You are asking a great deal of a FWD tranny and axles.

 

My point of contention is you were talking up these shops like they were a good performance option because they build high end rwd stuff and have a giant list of things they upgrade.

I said in one of the early replies that I agree almost any reputable shop can do a rebuild for a stock daily driver. Where I disagreed was for performance builds, and that's where all of the back and forth ensued.

It sounds like we're actually in agreement the whole time... lol

I just want it to be clear to newbies who don't know better.

Any transmission shop can make it a HD trans. Thats a factory variant of the transmission. The problem is the HD parts don't address the main failure areas with power. The other bad thing is buying a true full on HD is actually a down grade for a stock car. Its got a lower final drive, heavier converter + diff, and a lower stall speed so it feels noticeably slower (especially with a stock NA v6 engine).

We get it, you don't like modded street cars.

Plenty of people on here do though which is why I mention performance builds, and this is a relatively cheap and easy platform to mod. Not everyone wants the same Mustang/ Challenger / Camaro thats been done to death.

 

I just see no point in throwing thousands of dollars at a car just to go to a show and open the hood or idle around Sonic. At 22 I decided to get off the street and get on the track where I could really go fast. Never regretted it. Not trying to be a snob, but once you run 7s @ 185 you are in a different world. I am also too old to thrash on stuff I break now...lol. I see crap every day on FB where they have bolted on that boy racer crap, yet ignored the basics of maintenance and having a nice looking interior. They waste all their money on rims and subs. That's fine, I sold car audio for years, but I always spent money on the mechanicals and appearance before delving into those "cold air intakes" that actually take in hot air from the engine....but it's an easy bolt on and looks cool when you pop the hood. Then they buy those braces for the front end. I spent my money on a 33mm solid sway bar that no one will ever see, but if you drove it you would know something is different.

 

You've got to admit though, you're in an extreme minority on that one. Very few people can afford to run a full on dragster.

IMO that's the appeal of this platform - especially for younger people. They're incredibly slow stock, but they're ultra cheap (used to be able to pick up a GP for a few k before covid) and the 3800/LS4 is extremely robust - slap on a $1500 used turbo kit and either meth injection or an E85 fuel swap and you can get in the 12s with good tires. Thats not setting the world on fire, but its more than enough to have a good time against the stock / lightly modded NA v8 cars on a test and tune day. Plus, if they get a good trans built, theres no reason it can't serve double duty as a daily driver taking the kids to school (especially on a 4 door model).

Of course there's also the option to continue to mod to push it even further, but as with any platform the cost / benefit ratio gets worse the quicker you get.

I get what you're saying though- its hard to go backwards with speed / power. My daily driver GTO is in the 12s near stock, so I'd never bother trying to build up a W body just to do the same. But everyone has to start somewhere, and IMO this is a really great ultra-budget starting platform for someone just wanting to dip their toes in the water. I really think it would be a lot more popular if the trans had a bit more headroom stock / if the 4t80 was closer to a bolt in.

 

My complaint is that most of this stuff is just bolt on. They never really learn what it takes to make an engine operate properly. Air/Fuel ratios, spring height, seat pressure, piston to wall clearance, deck height, compression ratios, etc, etc. And that is just the motor. But it is a plug and play world now, so I kind of get it. I had a clash with Jegs and Gearheads (which turns out the same people build their trannys). I caved in and just conceded I am not going to get one off the shelf. They build by VIN. Even the form sent by the new place, Street Smart, has a slew of things that must be done (but glad of that) some of these places said there was nothing to do.

Important: Reset TAP (Transmission Adaptive Pressure)

If your order is marked *REFLASH REQUIRED* above, click here to review options on how to have your vehicle's PCM reflashed after transmission installation.

Guess they are up on things. We shall see how it goes. Got the entire tranny for under $2K, including shipping. Even a small military discount.

Take care.