Starting to Mod my monte.
 

A 3.4" pulley is definitely going to be far too small at this point (although you didn't say how spaced out these mods were going to be). But just to give you an idea, to run a top swap on a totally stock L36, you need to have a 4.2" pulley. Running even the stock L67's 3.8" pulley will take mods. IMO, you're better off going too large with the pulley until you have chance to scan it for knock. Since it seems like you want to keep going; when you do buy a pulley- buy a modular system (regardless what brand)- so a pulley swap is just 5 bolts away. Having to use a puller every time is not fun, and the modulars go for cheap used.

What stage (1x, 2, 3, 4)? The stage 3 and 4 require aftermarket heads, so they're out. I haven't heard much good about the stage 2, but the 1x is a nice mild cam. You'll still probably want to change out springs and the chain/dampener- especially if you plan to up your shift points. Any reason you want to do a cam so early in modding? Its not a bad idea to do it with the top swap since you'll be 95% there anyways, just curious.

If you plan to go with any cam- forget these. You'll end up with too much lift. Aftermarket cams are designed to work with either stock (1.6) or 1.7 ratio rockers, if you really think you want all that extra lift, just put a bigger cam in. If you don't plan to do a cam, modded stock 1.9's are a great mod, and can be had for ~$200 shipped.

IMO, this is too low on the list. When you go to do your top swap, I'd have a CAI ready to go at that point (you'll want to get rid of as much knock as possible with the new setup), I'd also do a 180* tstat, and autolite copper 104 plugs at the same time as well.

I would consider doing either a PLOG and a 3" downpipe, or full headers. If you're really going to do a cam, I'd go headers no question. They start about $300 up to $1000, but performance is roughly the same for all.

Keep in mind you will need a tune for the top swap already (even if its just a flash of a stock supercharged 3800 w/ 3.29s). A custom tune will be a great mod at this point, especially if you do end up with a cam/headers.

K&N Drop-in CAI

a drop in filter, and a cold air intake are two different things, Make sure you are doing the intake and not a filter change while keeping your stock intake.

I was going to point out that you can't use a K&N drop in w/ the CAI, and that you don't want to mix 1.9 rockers with an aftermarket cam, and that you're going to want more mods than just a cam before you run a 3.4" pulley on a top swap. Also that you're going to want to look into the exhaust BEFORE the catback in which case it's not really a question of sound versus price so much (sound isn't going to be affected much before the cat-back), but it looks like bumpin and chichi got it covered.

Anyways, if you don't have a good grasp of how the valvetrain works (or any part of the drivetrain for that matter), I'd strongly suggest looking up some info on howstuffworks.com or a similar site.
That way you won't end up buying mods that cancel each other out (or that are not compatible).

-Riggs.

again, scratch that 3.4 pulley. I know it may have come that way, but if you are top swapping you CAN NOT be running a 3.4 pulley.

without a top swap the 3.4 is the most common pulley because you can achieve it with just the basic bolt-ons, but on a top swap, you'll be needing a 3.8 or a 4.0 with the basic bolt ons. So the first thing you should be buying is the 4.0 pulley.

The 180° will help
The rockers I don't think you will be getting roller rockers, but 1.9 modified stock rockers.
Which if you aren't getting the roller rockers, your 1.9 modified should be fine on your stock springs (correct me on this one bumpin' / riggs)
The K&N is good
A port and polish never hurts.

Now here is a nice list of things you should ALSO be getting:
ZZP Downpipe with U-bend delete and High-Flow cat (I know it's 3" for supercharged, so it should be the same for a top swap)
at the minimum you should get a Stainless Steel / Ceramic Coated front Powerlog
The best you could do is a whole set of headers though.

But most importantly DO NOT run that stock 3.4 pulley. Start at 4.0 until you can get it scanned for KR, and then try a 3.8.

I have to say this whole build has made me rather nervous.

If this post is wrong, someone should chime in, but if I were you.

Changing springs and valves from stock, actually hurts the reliability of your engine. I would get a set of 1.9 Stock Modified Rockers You can grab them at that link, or for about $150-$200 from clubgp.com/newforum. And with those you just have to put them in. No springs, nothing.

Here is a link for the downpipes.

and the front powerlog, if you aren't getting headers you can find here.

Doing all of these with the top swap, are very easy bolt-ons and should not harm the reliability of the engine, or be difficult to install.

So did you drop the idea of getting a cam? If you're just going to do rockers, I would just get modded stock 1.9s, and forget the valvesprings- that way you don't have to worry about wearing out your timing chain tensioner early.

What heads are you getting though? If you're doing ported heads, a cam wouldn't be a bad choice either- and could let you run that 3.4" depending on what cam and other mods.

As said above, you're gonna need a lot of mods to be able to run a 3.4. I'd pull it off, and get something safer; then you can go back to it when you get enough mods- or sell it.

Why is that? If you think the whole mod list thing is getting too long, we're just going off your first post. There's no reason why you couldn't do the top swap bone stock- and just stick a 4.2" pulley on there, and be done with it.

That's a very true story. +40 HP just in that alone.

1. CAI
2. headers
3. 1.9 modified rockers
3. i'm guessing your top swap came with bigger injectors?? if not, you'll need 33#
4. save your money on the valve springs
5. try clubgp for cheap pulleys, they are on their all the time dirt cheap. good place to sell yours as well, or maybe someone wants to trade??? if you plan on modding more, just keep your 3.4 so you wont have to buy it again later
6. since your gonna have to get a tune anyways, might as well (if money is available) swap out for a bigger TB. get you some more airflow. i found a ported 72mm TB on club gp for $120 shipped with all sensors. cant beat that.

^^^^^ I like that list right there. Going from an L36 to a top swap/headers/1.9s/tune and smallest pulley you can safely run....it'd be a night and day difference.

The only thing I would change is I would skip the ported TB.
If you really want to upgrade the TB, just go straight to a N* or LS1.
There's not much of a benefit from upgrading the throttlebody unless you have opened up the blower inlet a bit.

You mentioned in one of the earlier posts that you are thinking about ported heads.
If you were going that route because you can get it done for free/cheap then go for it. Port the blower while you're at it.
If it's not free/cheap, then skip it.

Even just a straight top-swap will be a big upgrade, and you'll definitely notice a big increase in power. If you go with the basic bolt-on list that 2003supersport made up, I can almost guarantee you'll be smiling for days.

-Riggs.


PS. The 3.4" pulley that's already on the blower.....is it a press-on, or is it on a modular hub?
I have a stock press on pulley around here somewhere if you want a 3.8" one.

x2

Yeah, even with a 3.8" pulley- it would still be a monster, you'd be up almost 100 crank horsepower I bet.

Thanks for all your help guy's, i appreciate it more then you know!


part of my issue is my friend who is doing the labor, has delusions of grandeur with my car (and money..), because he is used to building race engine, he had it in his head that was what he was building for me, and between what i have been reading here and what he has been saying im putting the kibosh on a lot of whats in his mind.


this is my plan for next weekend, im buying a 4.0 modular pully, and just doing the top swap, no other mods. After i know this machine will run well, then i will look into adding other mods like, 1.9 rockers.

i have the CAI already so that's definitely going in, i also have the following that came from morad.

heads
valve covers
lower intake manifold
injectors
fuel rail
supercharger
TB (no maf)
vac lines
idler pullies
brackets
balancer
wiring harness upgrade
OEM GM gaskets and torque to yeild bolts

only after i know alll these upgrades are running stable, then i will start adding other mods.


thanks for everything guy's!

sig test.

You get an A+ for your test. :D:D

Sweet!
Was there a grading curve, because i was a C- student.

you have a picture of a Monte... it's an instant A+

i added a few pictures to my album just a few seconds ago, i just got her back from tint/rim install! (she is a filthy beast right now, i dont want to wash her untill after i get the engine out/back in)

correct me if im wrong, but isnt a MAF pricey vs. the cost of a used TB with all sensors?
i'd definately look into finding a replacement with all sensors...if your buddy can port the inlet then upgrade.

You can get a new 85mm external upgrade one for cheap- I got one off ebay from an LS2 for like $20.

Since his tune needs to be customized anyways for a regular 4t65 w/ an L67, its just a matter of copy and pasting in a new MAF table for it to work.

OK, after taking some time to figure out what exactly im doing, i made the following purchase from zzp yesterday.

XP cam with 105 springs/modded retainers
3/8 7.05 push rods
Modular pulley system (4.0)
104 spark plugs
180 tstat
clevite cam bearings (why not, cant hurt to have new bearings..)


This should be good for the engine, atleast for now...
by the time i get everything in the mail and the heads/SC are done (port/polish/valve job) i should have the money to buy the headers and exhaust and that should complete my mods (for the most part).

i also removed all of the interior, im replacing the carpet, and painting (vinyl dye) the plastics black and silver. i have the center console painted, and it looks great, im very impressed with SEM Color coat... i will post some pictures when i figure out what parts im painting silver..

Whoa- jumped into the cam huh? My reccomendation of the 104 plugs was figuring you were going to be just basic bolt ons, a cam/header setup would be better off with 103s IMO.

Next, definitely would ditch the cam bearings (awful lot of extra work for something that I've never seen go bad).

Third would be the 4.0" pulley- thats a massive pulley for a cam, even on 9.4:1 compression. You could run a 4.2" stock, a 4.0" is good for having a handful of bolt ons, but with a cam/heads/header/ported sc setup, you should be able to at least run a 3.4".

Lastly, what are you going to do about the timing chain? I'd at least reccomend sticking a new tensioner on there, do you plan to upgrade to a better chain?

My compression ratio will be changing a bit, the heads i bought from morad were warped slightly so now i have to have the head face milled down.
my understanding is that this will make a 9.45:1 when all is said and done.

103's are one heat range colder than 104's. 104's are great for L67's with basic bolt ons (rockers, intake, headers or plog/DP)- 103's are a step cooler for those in the cam/heads or IC range.

Honestly, in the middle of the post, it seemed as though you had switched to either not wanting to do any mods, or just doing some basics- hence the 4.0 reccomendation. It'll just mean less boost / less power than with a smaller pulley- I just hate to see the money go to waste (since I know it will be able to take a much smaller pulley)- I would call it ultra conservative for a setup like you plan to have.

Won't really make a difference, there are a few guys running 10:1 with M90's (and many running 9.5:1 with the forged piston builds), so another .05 compression ratio is no big deal, I doubt you'll even notice it.

I e-mailed zzp, i should be able to change these before they ship.

i did decide to run stock, i just couldn't get my head around exactly what i needed/wanted to do, but after reading a few post and talking to some very smart people locally i finally sorted out what i wanted to do... (im a network guy after all, engines seem more complex to me...)

im also changing this to a 3.8 if i can, still a little large, but im going to ease the pulley size down over time.
(this is for my comfort/peace of mind, and to make sure i don't blow this engine)


Yea, i didn't think so, i was just a little salty the heads were warped...

what kinda power is this thing going to make when its done? and no matter what its goin to feel like a change from day to night.

i wish i could answer this, but i wont know until the dyno tune!

After disassembling my blower, i found some grooves inside the housing, also the Teflon coating is chipping off the rotor blades...
attached, are some images of the housing.

can this be smoothed out or is this a deal breaker?

i will call morad if i need to, this has a 90 day warranty..

Both are pretty common, especially with higher mileage blowers. The grooves can't be smoothed out at all- if you were to have them honed to remove the grooving- you'd make an even bigger gap between the rotors and the walls- meaning less boost and less efficiency.

How bad is the coating coming off the rotors?

Here is a pic of the rotor blades, you can seee the rather large area where the coating has chipped off.

UPDATE: Bill at morad sent me a new Rotor pack for the blower, it looks much much better then the last...(no charge, that's good customer service)

03 monte were did u get the harness upgrade for the car..... nice car by the way looks exactly like mine before i added my rims... im also getting my car supercharged in two weeks it would be much helpif u can tell me where u got the parts for the top swap is morad the guy that sell on ebay as well?

yes morad does sell on ebay, i have had a great experience with them.

they are a little more pricey then if you bought them on glubgp, but they give a 90 day parts warranty, most of the time your going to know if its bad by that time...


if you do go to morad, speak to erik

Hey 03Monte (Ryan) correct........just need to get some information from you since you got the parts from morad already, when they sent you the parts what was included? What would i need to buy extra for the kit they sell you got any clue?

My name is shane, not ryan.

this is the list of items morad will sell you in the "top swap kit":
heads
valve covers
lower intake manifold
injectors
fuel rail
supercharger
TB (no maf)
vac lines
idler pullies
brackets
balancer

they sell this for $650 + shipping.

You will also need the wiring harness upgrade and injector clips to splice into your harness. they can get you these for $55 with the kit.
you can also get the OEM GM gaskets and torque to yield bolts for an additional $235 with the kit.

all said and done $940 before shipping. as soon as you get the parts start tearing the supercharger apart to check the rotor pack for chipping Teflon, you can also do what im doing and port and polish the heads, intake, and supercharger.

this should be everything you need to do the swap, just make sure they give you a stock 3.8 pulley

i also bought a new cam, bearings, heavier valve springs (105) and retainers, colder spark plugs (103), and 180 tstat. i am also buying some stainless valves ($77 for intake and $77 for exhaust) all i need are the headers and exhaust and this thing will be a beast!


let me know if i can be of anymore assistance, also dont forget you will need either a new PCM or your current one flashed to be a L67 with a 4T65E (or the -HD version if you have it) the best would be a nice dyno tune at intense racing (this is what im doing)

Well SHANE hehe sorry for the name mix up, you have been alot of help luck you to have intense so close by that you can drive and go get a custom tune.... i am have trouble finding someone that will tune a 3.8l engine around here only thing tuned around here is GM trucks and vetts and trans ams and so forth... but im talking to a guys that i willing to do it for me at a cost of 300 bucks with 3 dyno pulls included hopfully everything goest well and i can do this for less than 1500 (prays to god) hehe but gonna get a move on, on ordering my parts also getting p-logs, 1.9 ratio rockers, down pipe, 3 pod pillar for my boost guage, battery guage and thinking of adding the temp. guage as well.... hopfully this will give me a significant gain in power kinda bored of the N/A 3800 Engine hehe bout ready to move on to bigger and better things hehe but also keeping it at a good MPG rate hehe

if you do the 1.9 rockers, don't upgrade your cam you will end up with to much lift... (thanks bumpin96monte for that information)

ok might as well post his question on here..... ok im going to to purchase the l67 top swap kit from morad and there TB does come with a MAF so i saw bumping talking about just gotting a LS2 MAF would this work or would i have to buy the original MAF sensor for a l67 engine? what other sensors would i need to get for this top swap kit? all suggestions and/or comments appreciated