Thank you for pointing this out.

I might be overstepping what I said I would do in my thread about withdrawing from political discussions, but I would like to say this.

Libertarians being secular conservatives who want to withdraw God from our Constitution is a new one to me. But maybe this falls under me being young, I don't know.

 

"Libertarianism is, as the name implies, the belief in liberty. Libertarians believe that each person owns his own life and property, and has the right to make his own choices as to how he lives his life - as long as he simply respects the same right of others to do the same."
-- Sharon Harris, President, Advocates for Self-Government

(Cowboy the above is not true, God is has the final say for a moral majority conservative...the same ones who voted Reagan and Bush into office.)

 

"Libertarianism is a philosophy. The basic premise of libertarianism is that each individual should be free to do as he or she pleases so long as he or she does not harm others. In the libertarian view, societies and governments infringe on individual liberties whenever they tax wealth, create penalties for victimless crimes, or otherwise attempt to control or regulate individual conduct which harms or benefits no one except the individual who engages in it."
-- definition written by the U.S. Internal Revenue Service (!), during the process of granting the Advocates for Self-Government status as a non-profit educational organization.

(note from me:the above is not true from a Biblical stand point, it is secular thinking.)

 

Political Orientation:
Because libertarians tend to favor privatization and small government, libertarianism is often thought of as a right-wing movement more in keeping with the Republican Party than the Democratic Party. But changes in the Republican Party over the past 40 years, most notably with respect to social issues such as abortion and gay rights, have essentially marginalized the libertarian movement from both parties. Today it is arguably represented by the Libertarian Party, though the Libertarian Party's own record on civil liberties issues is far from perfect.

(note from me: Libertarians have recently separated from the republican party because some believe that gays and abortions are okay because they aren't hurting anyone...definitely MORE secular thinking.)

 

Congratulations Dr. Paul for breaking into2 digit numbers in Iowa.

 

Glad to see you didn't back down like we talked about a few days ago Dwayne!!!! I ain't touching this thread though.

 

Well, I don'tknow where you're getting your information, but most of it is wrong. The Libertarians have recently seperated from the Republican Party???? What kind of nonsensical statementis that? [:-]

I think the problem is that you don't understand what Libertarians stand for, so allow me to give you the bottom-line. Libertarians believe in The Constitution of the United States - word for word, and exactly as it is written. It remains, my friend, the supreme law of the land, does it not? Our politicians still swear an oath to protect and defend it (what a joke), but we've allowed them to routinely and totally disregard it once they're in office - going all the way back to "honest Abe".

It sounds like you blame Libertarians for the apparent attack on Christianity this country has endured for the past 45 years, and this is simply crazy. Our enemies, my friend, are the statists, the leftists, the NWO-types, the secular-progressives (primarily in the Demorat Party prior to 1996, but in both major parties since that time), attorneys and the ACLU. Personally, I believe that the ACLU is currently the most significant and dangerous threat to America as we know it.

It seems to me that Israel has every right to exist, andto live in peaceand harmony with theother nations of the world -few Libertarians would argue otherwise. What we do have a problem with is our federal govenment stealing money from American citizens -at the point of a gun -and giving it to Israel (or any other country, for that matter). I simply can't find anything in The Constitution that legally authorizes the federal government to do this, nor can any of my associates in the Libertarian Party, nor can Ron Paul. Perhaps we're the ones who are crazy, Dave...set us straight, my friend, and tell us what we're missing here.

Are you one of those who believes The Constitution is old and outdated...a "living document" as the lunatic leftist Algore once proclaimed? If so, I remind you that the Founders included a mechanism by which The Constitution can be legally amended, as it has been several times. If portions of The Constitution need to be changed, then lets do it in accordance with the law, Dave...that's all we Libertarians ask. If you somehow have a problem with that, I can assure you that I'm all ears.

 

intimidator... this thread was started before i backed out of hte political arena on the MCF. since it was started, i have not participated. i've just let these two go at it.

 

Cowboy...there ain't nothin' for the two of us to go at. Either one believes that The Constitution is the cornerstone and foundation of law in this country of our's, or one doesn't. I happen to be one of those who doesn't have a problem with reading comprehension. For example, what is so difficult to understand about "Congress shall make no law"? What is soconfusing about "shall not be infringed"?? How could anyone misunderstand "the powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people"? Pretty simply stuff, Cowboy.You're on the right track, my friend...don't be distracted by those who seemingcan't read.

 

Just think some folks should reread the Constitution and the Amendments. Pay special attention to Section 8. It pretty much covers taxation and why we support Israel, which I think is covered under common defense. There is also no mention of God, or of a "Christian" nation.
What part of "United" in "The United States of America" is it that y'all have an issue with? The Constitution is SUPPOSED to be the law of the land, and nowhere in it does it say that a Christian is better thana Jew, or a Hindu, or a Muslim, etc, etc.

I don't agree with supporting other countries, either, but we do it for mainly national security, I think.

http://www.archives.gov/national-arc...ranscript.html


That being said, the ideas behind both Conservatism and Libertarianism are actually good, sound ideas. It is the implementation of these ideas and principles that causes problems. Especially worriesome to me is "fiscal conservatism",where we cut taxes for the rich, start 2 wars, and more than double our national debt, allin7 short years. Never before in the history of the U.S. have taxes been cut during time of war.

The Constitution is indeed a "living,breathing document", (except to George Bush, who called it "a goddamn piece of paper"), as evidenced by the 27 Amendments to the Constitution. Amendments are provided for in the Constitution itself, and many more may follow.

Also, the "moral majority conservatives" GPD mentioned were all suckered into voting for Reagan and Bush, who were and are no real "Christian Conservatives". Why do I say suckered? Look at the mainstream conservatives opposition to a "real" Christian conservative, Huckabee. They only used the Christian conservatives for their votes, and nothing more. Once they got their votes, what did they do for them? Name three things, betcha can't. Also ask yourself 1 question "Who would Jesus bomb?"