Hey Mel. You know I see a lot of them. But nothing close to that condition. Man great job on that. I like the seat belt system on that car. I had almost the same thing in my 93 Super Couple T-Bird. Very nice job

 

Well, let me go ahead and begin my argument with defining what, in my opinion, a muscle car is. A muscle car was a mid-size to full-size car with a big engine that was also affordable to any poor man with a decent wage. Middle class and upper class guys could usually afford a big block or a higher trim package, but the poor man could still afford some decent power in a good car.

I would say the muscle car era did in fact go until 1972. Just because 1970 was the peak doesn't mean that '71 and '72 weren't muscle cars... but the muscle car era was in decline. There were some muscle cars here and there in the 70's and 80's, but not really good ones anymore. The Corvettes were sports cars, not technically a muscle car in my opinion. Mustangs, Camaro's, and Firebirds come closer, but they are more technically known as pony cars.

The reason I like to say the muscle car era run until '72 is that you still had big cars with big blocks being produced. 70-71 Torinos, the '72 Torino was a big car with a big engine, although detuned, the 70-72 Chevelles had big power, the Challenger ran in '72 and redesigned in '72 and ran one more year into '73. I think the Charger remained a big car through like '76. The GTO existed in a muscle car state through '72. So I say the muscle car era just peeked in '70, and went into a rather fast state of decline. By '73, the Chevelle, GTO, and other cars were severely detuned and usually neutered. '73 was the last good year of the Mustang, the last year of the Challenger, and all of these cars were getting weaker. The Mustang II came out in '74 and that was the end of the good Mustangs for awhile.

To enhance my point, here is the '73 Chevelle:


Up until '72, the Chevelle looked a lot like your car, Rick! But you knew that.

The '73 GTO:



But a few good cars remained that were big, had some power, but they weren't nearly the car they were years earlier. For instance, the '74 Torino and the '74 Chargers:





So my conclusion based on this information is the that the muscle car era did not end with the production of the last '70 model car. However, this was the peak, that pinnacle that was reached. That doesn't mean the mountain was gone, but the slope down the other side was pretty steep. It was a good climb, and it ended too quickly for us car enthusiasts. '71 and '72 were still muscle cars, but they just weren't the cars that the past 3-4 years were. I call '72 the end of the era because the GTO and Chevelle no longer existed in their muslce car states, the pony cars were in a fast decline, as well as other cars that were merely "hanging on" Cars like the Cougar, Thunderbird, and Roadrunner were phasing out or phasing more into luxury than performance. Muscle cars kind of existed past '72, but like said, nothing like they were. And after '70, the cars were nothing like they had been. All good things must come to an end, but not at their pinnacle, I hope!

Plus, car eras never have definete dates in history where we can divide them. I would say the muscle car era began in 1964 with the GTO, but some like to argue that the fuel injected 348 '57 Chevy's began the muscle car era. I go with '64-'72 though. After that, I like to call it the "OPEC" era, where small cars like the Vega, the Laguno, the Pinto, the Pacer, and the Gremlin ruled the road. I would give this era about 1973-1981-2-3 or so. Then there was the rebirth of the muscle car, from 1981-2-3 or so up until about the present day as far as I can tell. However, all these eras overlap. The minivan era and the SUV era of the early 90's through about mid 2000's came in, with the minivan still going strong. There was "The Beginning" which I call from 1908 with the first Model T to about 1928 or so, when other cars were starting to outclass the Model T with fancy stuff Henry Ford didn't think anyone needed, like electric start and stuff like that. Then there were the fancy rumble seat cars and "sedans" of the 30's up until the war, then there was the post war "age of excess" in cars, where from about 1946-1964, cars rolled off the lines with big fins, tons of chrome, and other neat stuff. Chevrolet ruled this era too. Their styling and power was just unmatched. Arguably, GM and Mopar kind of ruled the Muscle Car era, the OPEC era wasn't worth ruling, and GM was the major player in the rebirth of the Muscle Car. I like to claim that Ford ruled up until about WWII though. There is, again, a lot of overlap in the eras. Not all cars produced from '64-72 were muscle cars, and not all cars produced from '72-80 or so were small cars with no power. I do try to label my eras for what the popular car was and what the era is remembered for.


I like the cars I'm seeing posted. i like that 65 Buick too!!! And of course, everyone is probably tired of hearing about my muscle car, so I'll just resign my argument by saying, yeah, I have a muscle car, and it's in my sig.

 

'82 350 Berlinetta - White with Burgundy Interior. Indy 500 decals. 59,000 original miles.
was s/b an LG4 305 4bbl when ordered. Factory mistake to our advantage -with 350
block, meant for an '82 vette. Purchased new, all documentation retained.
(2) '65 SS Impalas, (1) 396/425, Blaclk on Black, loaded. 37,000 original miles (1) 327-300Hp, White/Red interior, Cragar SS Wheels - Triple Crome, beefer cam, Long Tube Headers, Holley 650-
As driven in 1974 when I was in H.S. 74,000 miles. Original, family owned car, protecto-plate, window sticker, etc.
'68 502 Biscanye post, was my Grandmothers - I still have the 307 & powerglide, if I want
to go back to original. I used to play in this car with my cousin! Now, It does great
wheel stands!
'70 C-10 L-48 350 - My daily transportation- 'cause my wife drives the Black '98 Monte
Took the 307/350 turbo out (kept) Put in '70 L48 Vette motor, mild cam, long tube headers.
'50 Packard straight 8 (327 c.i.) - Was my Great Grandfather's ride. All Original.

I guess you could call me a Gear-Head?

-Mark.

 

Wow, that black Charger looks a lot like the '73 I had! Mine was an SE with the 3 slot rear quarter windows, though.

 

IMO there should be no timeline on a muscle car, sports car, exotic, pony, car or whatever... To me a muscle car is designed as a RWD, V8, with 2 doors that is mid/full size...there are exceptions A Grand National is a muscle car IMO even as a V8....The mid 90's impalas maybe considered muscle cars even as four doors...same as today's Chargers....

I agree that during the late 80's, through the 90's and the early 2000's there were not many muscle cars, but now-a-days with names like GTO, Charger, Challenger, 300c and possibly a return of the Chevelle, and el camino I think Muscle cars are making a come back and people are starting to categorize them as "Modern Muscle".

Having said that, here's my GTO



Appearance wise I have a sap pontiac front end, and ruff racing rims.

I have a full suspension, pedders street 2 kit, so this GTO can do something that it's previous predocessors could not....turn and handle.

Power wise I have kooks headers, K&N intake, Borla Exhaust and a 160 tstat and am making 365hp/367torque to the wheels.

Joe

 

Not to jerk your chain Cowboy but Challenger ran through 74. My brother had one. This is not it but a pic of someones. All is nice.........

 

Well you showed everyone what I know about Mopar!

I agree that it's tough to put a timeline on muscle cars. I put a time line out as a time when they were more prevalent and it is what the era is known for. There were some "muscle cars" in the late 70's... the Smokey and the Bandit Trans Am comes to mind, our Monte Carlo's, the Gran Torino... but it's not what the era is really known for.... so I don't call that the "muscle car era." I like to consider myself a car historian sometimes... and all eras just about overlap and some element of them exist all the time. It's sort of like world history and US History... we set dates on time periods, but tehre were overlaps and elements of it all the time in several other time periods.

I put the 80's to present as the muscle rebirth, but that's kind of broad. I say that because the Mustangs, Camaro's, and Firebirds were getting fast again. The Monte Carlo, Grand National, and some other cars I may have forgotten started getting fast. In the 90's, we got some really good pony cars though. The Corvette's were really quick, the Viper came out.... lots of neat stuff going on. But in the mid 90's, there came the SUV and Minivan era.... and big pick ups became daily drivers for a lot of people who don't necessarily need pick up trucks.

 

Without dwelling on whether it's a 'real' muscle car, attached pic is my Other Car: a 1990 Jaguar XJ-S with 5.3L V-12. The engine is stock and generates about 300 HP. I'm just starting some simple mod's: opening up intake and exhaust. Both stock intake & exhaust are very restrictive, mostly for noise control.

I've only removed the stock mid-body mufflers so far, replaced them with straight pipe. The rear-mounted stock resonators are next; I plan to put 4" round Magnaflow mufflers in their place. Next is to remove the Cat's, all 4 of them! Each bank of exhaust pipes coming off the manifolds have a pre-Cat and normal Cat for a total of 4.

Swapping out stock airboxes (one for each bank of the engine) with an easier breathing aftermarket version is next.

If my budget allows, I'll eventually swap out the ECU for a specially tuned version from AJ6 Engineering. I've heard great things about it.

Even thought it's a British car, it comes standard with an GM transmission: the TH400. It's no speed demon off the line, not with standard 3-speed auto tranny and 2.88 gearing in the rear. Others have put in different tranny and changed gearing to great effect. But that's out of my budget for now. Maybe some day. For now, it's a great strong cruiser, I just won't beat any good American muscle cars off the line. Great fun to drive.

 

They built the 'Cudas and Challengers through '74, but sadly dropped the big-blocks after the '71 model year. Mopar "numbers snobs" shun all post-'71 Mopars. Dont' ask me how I know.
I call them "numbers snobs" because all they care about is production numbers, numbers matching, correct date codes, original air in the tires, etc., etc.

 

Thank you so much Sir!!