Haha, love the disclaimer! You're cool peeps! It's fun having discussions like this...but enough small talk, back to business

It's hard to carry on a debate like this with someone who contradicts themselves, you're stealing my thunder man. First you say you don't care if the players choose where they play, then you say the teams should decide where they play. So which is it? Make up your mind man:p

LOL. So the fans/residents of Cleveland are whining because LeBron promised a ring and didn't deliver? Really? Last time I checked basketball is a team sport so how can you hold one player accountable for the accomplishments of the whole? But if you really want to place blame, isn't Gilbert the man responsible for putting together the front office, who in turn puts together the team that steps onto the floor? So I guess Gilbert is as much to blame as anyone seeing as how he's the one who owns the team and puts the pieces in place, who puts the pieces in place. Maybe if he had done a better job and dug into his pocket a little deeper then maybe LeBron would have had a better supporting cast and they could have won a title.

As for staying or going, the fact of the matter is that LeBron NEVER said what he was going to do either way until the press conference. But even if he did and ended up changing his mind, that's life! We all do it, but how many of us do it with millions of dollars at stake and in front of a crowd of millions? Not to mention the possibility of a huge hit to his image and legacy. So did he ever say he was staying? Again, he can't control your interpretation of what he said or did. And even if he did say it, he obviously had a change of heart. Have you never had one?

The problem I see with your stance on the issue is that it's filled with lot's of emotion, that's the last thing that should factor in to one's decision especially with so much at stake. Take all the emotion out of it and your stance crumbles. LeBron's responsibility isn't to ensure the financial stability of the city of Cleveland or anyone else's but his and his family's. It's not to any of his fans, it's to him, his brand, his family, his business ventures, his future, and his goals in his life and career. How can you not respect that? Teams don't take into consideration a players financial health when they trade/waive/cut a player, they don't consider the effect that will have on his children who may have just settled in to their schools/neighborhoods/friends only to get yanked and moved across the country. Why oh why should LeBron carry that burden?

I'm sure the players themselves don't mind all that much when they get moved, they know the nature of the business, but it's not just the players that get effected by said movement. So if players should consider the economy of their community in their decision, surely the team should consider the effects a move would have on the players immediate family, right?

How are the loyalty examples poor and not relevant? Your whole stance is based on LeBron not being loyal, hence the Benedict Arnold dig. KG stayed loyal to Minnesota and what did he get out of it? He got 12 years of misery! He ended up with a good team in Boston but is clearly past his prime. Why should LeBron wait until he's in the same boat before he goes ring chasing like all the other has beens of the NBA? If you had a chance to further your career in a place and for a company where you have a better shot at attaining the level of success you want while in a larger market which ensures more opportunities for you to pursue you other dreams and goals, would you turn down the opportunity and stay at the place that promised you year after year that they'd do what needed to be done for you to reach your career aspirations but had failed to do so for the past 7 years? Puts things into perspective a bit doesn't it?

Winning MVP's and 60 plus games is wonderful, but unless that's exclamated with a championship ring at the end of the year then it doesn't mean much. That's always the goal of every player every year. And when you're a 60 win team two or three years in a row and can't get the job done, FAIL! At some point you had to expect that LeBron would realize that Gilbert wasn't holding up his end of his promise to build a championship caliber team. Yet you don't seem too upset with him

Jordan and Bryant, LOL. Those guys have been surrounded with great talent throughout their careers. Who has LeBron had? Boobie Gibson. Zyldrunas Illgauskas. Mo Williams. DeLonte West. ROFL. Is Kobe playing with a bunch of nobodies? I think not. Without the supporting cast, one player can only do so much considering basketball is a 5 on 5 sport, not 5 on 1.

Sorry man, I had to respond. I respect your knowledge and opinion so it's nice to exchange ideas and thoughts with someone who knows as much and feels as strongly about it as you do. I mean no disrespect at all. It's been nice debating this with you

 

Hey like I said, done discussing it and not going to read it. I'm especially not going to debate about it with someone that can't understand it was about more than basketball. Lebron who? Next!

 

LMAO. The ONLY thing I can't understand is why you expect any player to carry the burden of things other than basketball when making a decision on what's best for him and his family. Anything beyond basketball that the player factors in to his decision should be at his discretion and not saddled upon him by unforgiving and unrealistic fans who seem to think he owes them something.

Let me ask you this question, if you were to secure a job with another company that would guarantee you'd be working with the best in your industry and virtually guaranteed greater earning potential going forward, and put you in one of the most sought after environments in the world, would you turn it down based on how other people would feel, how your old company would be effected and how that would effect the local economy?

Last time I checked it's not an NBA players responsibility to maintain a strong local economy so why can't you understand that this shouldn't even come close to being a concern for him? I thought cities and states have elected government officials who's responsibility that is so it's incredibly ignorant and unrealistic for you to put that on an athlete's plate as if it's his responsibility.

 

You crack me up. You must be a lawyer for super-villains.

Here is the simple math version:
Traitor + Coward = Lebron

 

Super-villains, huh? That explains alot, it seems you're living in a make believe world, population 1. I was hoping we'd be able to carry on a mature debate/discussion but it seems that's no longer possible so i'm done with it

 

Thank god, I was done discussing it 3 posts ago (please read the bottom of post #10), you just wouldn't let it go. LOL @ "mature debate", please read up to post #13 where you call me "incredibly ignorant and unrealistic", it stopped being mature when you started personally attacking me for no reason. Your just absolutely clueless, the only thing you know is what you've seen on ESPN so give me a break. I've lived with it for 7 years in the local media. I'm not going to debate over it with someone that wasn't close to the situation.

Blake Griffin looked really good last night. It's good to see the Clippers get a win.

 

I see what you're saying about my "ignorant and unrealistic" comment and understand completely how you could feel the way you do about it but it seems I wasn't clear. I didn't mean you as a person were ignorant or unrealistic, I meant the act of placing undue burdens on LBJ was not fair or realistic so I apologize for my bad choice of words

LOL @ me being clueless for "getting my info from ESPN" while you're in the know due to living in Cleveland and getting your info from the local media!!! That's got to be the funniest thing I've heard in a long time! The issues I have with that comment are numerous:

1.) Media is media, my friend. No matter local or national, they all jump to conclusions, report half truths, are more interested in the story vs. the facts. So getting info from a local media source may or may not be any better than getting it from a national source and vice versa. So please don't pretend otherwise.

2.) We aren't debating facts as much as we are philosophy and ideals. These can only be formed by us as individuals based on our opinions and life experiences. There is no media outlet local or national that can tell me what my philosophies or ideals are and I sincerely hope you could say the same.

3.) I don't need to be close to a situation in order to form an educated opinion on it. I'm not close to the presidential race when it was going on but I formed an opinion on who I wanted to see take over the office. Since Barrack was from Illinois should only residents from there have been able to vote for him since they were close to him? Sounds pretty asinine doesn't it?

Since we aren't arguing facts, you have no basis for telling me how clueless I am other than to try to insult me for not agreeing with your philosophy and ideology. I don't think that's necessary at all, we aren't all going to see eye to eye on everything but that doesn't mean we have to take our ball and go home. I actually think a healthy debate is good, it not only keeps your brain sharp (it too is a muscle that needs to be exercised) but can sometimes result in causing someone to look at something from another perspective, helping them to realize something about the situation or topic that they hadn't considered. This realization can often times lead to a discovery about ones self that could result in personal improvement, so i'm all for it cause I know i'm not perfect!

 

Not sure why anyone from Cleveland should be happy for Lebron?

 

No kidding...

1) Media is not media. The local Cavs beat writer here was Brian Windhorst. He does not report half truths or jump to conclusions. He is well known and respected in Cleveland, I have met him personally many times. Once again you have no clue what you are talking about, pretend all you want.

2) Exactly, and no random person on the internet is going to change mine.

3) Actually yes you do because you are poorly informed. It is well known that ESPN has pulled articles off their website that cast Lebron in a negative light, google "Lebron article removed from espn". National media and local media are not the same. The fact that you are comparing this to a presidential election is hysterical...

Conclusion, your still clueless.

 

Are you serious? Everyone knows local media is more accurate than national media. Local media is more close to the situation. Local media does all the fact digging, interviewing, and is on scene. The fact that your laughing is just making yourself look more foolish at this point.