Pentastar 3.6 L swap
#1
10-04-2022, 06:00 PM
Pentastar 3.6 L swap
Hi guys, I will start this by saying please don’t be mean, I know car guys can be fairly particular especially about the 6th gen but give me a shot here. I’m not a complete beginner when it comes to working with cars but certainly not even close to an expert. To start, I’m starting to do some research on messing around with my 2000 Monte Carlo SS. I love driving the car, I think especially with the way the tranny feels it doesn’t have a whole lot more time left. Basically, when it finally goes I was thinking of keeping it as a project car. Now the only basic idea I have now is to pop out the old engine, and pop in a Pentastar 3.6L as I’ve driven a charger in the past, and despite being similar in weight the charger had wayyy more kick. I would go with the V6 cause to be honest I don’t wanna go through and change everything over for a V8. Long story short, is this swap plausible, and what potential other equipment would I need to change to make this work including transmission. Once again, some people won’t like this, but it’s an automatic and i’d preferably like to keep it that way. Although it’s not completely off the table to do a manual swap if it’s as easy as an auto. Thanks everyone!
Ty
Ty
#2
10-05-2022, 10:25 AM
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Mentor, Ohio
Posts: 12,225
Welcome!
I am not familiar with that Pentastar 3.6l engine. In theory, anything is possible with the right resources. But before going that road, if you have not explored modding and computer tuning of the 3.8L v6, that might also be an avenue to explore (as there has been a lot of available tricks to add some pep to this platform).
I am not familiar with that Pentastar 3.6l engine. In theory, anything is possible with the right resources. But before going that road, if you have not explored modding and computer tuning of the 3.8L v6, that might also be an avenue to explore (as there has been a lot of available tricks to add some pep to this platform).
#3
10-05-2022, 06:20 PM
Welcome!
I am not familiar with that Pentastar 3.6l engine. In theory, anything is possible with the right resources. But before going that road, if you have not explored modding and computer tuning of the 3.8L v6, that might also be an avenue to explore (as there has been a lot of available tricks to add some pep to this platform).
I am not familiar with that Pentastar 3.6l engine. In theory, anything is possible with the right resources. But before going that road, if you have not explored modding and computer tuning of the 3.8L v6, that might also be an avenue to explore (as there has been a lot of available tricks to add some pep to this platform).
#4
10-14-2022, 02:29 PM
It just seems a bit odd to want to go through this enormous amount of work for such a mediocre engine. No offense to the Dodge fans on here, but putting in this level of effort for just a commuter car 300 hp v6 seems kinda crazy.
I would go with the V6 cause to be honest I don’t wanna go through and change everything over for a V8.
If your intent is RWD, then the stuff changed for the swap is literally everything. The only parts you'll end up keeping are the upper body shell, body panels, and likely some of the interior parts (likely many with modification). May as well do a v8 in this case to make the absurd amount of work worth it.
Long story short, is this swap plausible,
and what potential other equipment would I need to change to make this work including transmission.
but it’s an automatic and i’d preferably like to keep it that way. Although it’s not completely off the table to do a manual swap if it’s as easy as an auto.
I would like to propose a counter point - what is it you like so much about this engine?
If its torque - a L67 top swap on your current engine can be done for under $1k and will get you more torque than the pentastar makes (and with a much nicer curve too).
If its power - a bolt on turbo kit can be had for under $2k used and will meet or exceed the power of a v6 Charger.
If its the aftermarket - there are parts out there to get your 3800 to 500+ hp to the wheels if you really wanted to.
Even if theres something special about that engine that can't be duplicated with a GM -why not just buy a v6 Charger as theyre so cheap? Local Craigslist around here has older ones from around $3k -6k. When you factor in your time for a swap, you're going to be light years ahead just buying a different car.
The reason I give these options is because of the enormous time and expense required to do a 100% custom swap like that. Even if you somehow had all of the skill and farmed nothing out (ie you could weld, wire, machine, and tune) - and got a totalled car for cheap, this is still an enormous amount of your time to complete - likely months for the average Joe (compared to 3 of the 4 options above, all of which can literally be done in 1 day).
Last edited by bumpin96monte; 10-14-2022 at 02:36 PM.
#5
12-15-2022, 07:03 AM
Thanks!
Why that engine in particular? It had way more kick because it makes 100 more hp than you do (likely even more due to the age of yours), but TBH the current GM 3.6 makes just about the exact same power + torque.
It just seems a bit odd to want to go through this enormous amount of work for such a mediocre engine. No offense to the Dodge fans on here, but putting in this level of effort for just a commuter car 300 hp v6 seems kinda crazy.
I don't think you understand how much needs to be changed to make this work even for a v6 to v6 swap. Its changing out practically everything, plus likely several custom pieces (mounts, axles, wiring etc). Thats all assuming you kept it FWD.
If your intent is RWD, then the stuff changed for the swap is literally everything. The only parts you'll end up keeping are the upper body shell, body panels, and likely some of the interior parts (likely many with modification). May as well do a v8 in this case to make the absurd amount of work worth it.
Yes. Literally anything is possible with enough time and money. You could convert it to a jet fuel powered turbine engine if you really wanted to and had stacks of cash to throw at it.
As noted above - everything. Even keeping it FWD, youre best off buying a running driving pentastar v6 FWD car and using it as the donor so that you're sure you have every single nut, bolt, and control module to make it work. Youll still need to custom make some pieces (mounts, axles, wiring, exhaust, etc), but having a complete donor car is the best way to go for modern stuff with all of the computer module integration. Doesnt have to be pretty - the bodywork can be completely trashed as long as it runs and drives.
There's no easy about any of this. If you're going to put hundreds of hours into a conversion, do it with whatever transmission you prefer.
I would like to propose a counter point - what is it you like so much about this engine?
If its torque - a L67 top swap on your current engine can be done for under $1k and will get you more torque than the pentastar makes (and with a much nicer curve too).
If its power - a bolt on turbo kit can be had for under $2k used and will meet or exceed the power of a v6 Charger.
If its the aftermarket - there are parts out there to get your 3800 to 500+ hp to the wheels if you really wanted to.
Even if theres something special about that engine that can't be duplicated with a GM -why not just buy a v6 Charger as theyre so cheap? Local Craigslist around here has older ones from around $3k -6k. When you factor in your time for a swap, you're going to be light years ahead just buying a different car.
The reason I give these options is because of the enormous time and expense required to do a 100% custom swap like that. Even if you somehow had all of the skill and farmed nothing out (ie you could weld, wire, machine, and tune) - and got a totalled car for cheap, this is still an enormous amount of your time to complete - likely months for the average Joe (compared to 3 of the 4 options above, all of which can literally be done in 1 day).
It just seems a bit odd to want to go through this enormous amount of work for such a mediocre engine. No offense to the Dodge fans on here, but putting in this level of effort for just a commuter car 300 hp v6 seems kinda crazy.
I don't think you understand how much needs to be changed to make this work even for a v6 to v6 swap. Its changing out practically everything, plus likely several custom pieces (mounts, axles, wiring etc). Thats all assuming you kept it FWD.
If your intent is RWD, then the stuff changed for the swap is literally everything. The only parts you'll end up keeping are the upper body shell, body panels, and likely some of the interior parts (likely many with modification). May as well do a v8 in this case to make the absurd amount of work worth it.
Yes. Literally anything is possible with enough time and money. You could convert it to a jet fuel powered turbine engine if you really wanted to and had stacks of cash to throw at it.
As noted above - everything. Even keeping it FWD, youre best off buying a running driving pentastar v6 FWD car and using it as the donor so that you're sure you have every single nut, bolt, and control module to make it work. Youll still need to custom make some pieces (mounts, axles, wiring, exhaust, etc), but having a complete donor car is the best way to go for modern stuff with all of the computer module integration. Doesnt have to be pretty - the bodywork can be completely trashed as long as it runs and drives.
There's no easy about any of this. If you're going to put hundreds of hours into a conversion, do it with whatever transmission you prefer.
I would like to propose a counter point - what is it you like so much about this engine?
If its torque - a L67 top swap on your current engine can be done for under $1k and will get you more torque than the pentastar makes (and with a much nicer curve too).
If its power - a bolt on turbo kit can be had for under $2k used and will meet or exceed the power of a v6 Charger.
If its the aftermarket - there are parts out there to get your 3800 to 500+ hp to the wheels if you really wanted to.
Even if theres something special about that engine that can't be duplicated with a GM -why not just buy a v6 Charger as theyre so cheap? Local Craigslist around here has older ones from around $3k -6k. When you factor in your time for a swap, you're going to be light years ahead just buying a different car.
The reason I give these options is because of the enormous time and expense required to do a 100% custom swap like that. Even if you somehow had all of the skill and farmed nothing out (ie you could weld, wire, machine, and tune) - and got a totalled car for cheap, this is still an enormous amount of your time to complete - likely months for the average Joe (compared to 3 of the 4 options above, all of which can literally be done in 1 day).
#6
12-15-2022, 07:08 AM
It just seems a bit odd to want to go through this enormous amount of work for such a mediocre engine. No offense to the Dodge fans on here, but putting in this level of effort for just a commuter car 300 hp v6 seems kinda crazy.
No offence taken. I’m intermediate at best in terms of my experience with vehicles, the only reason why I was considering the Dodge engine is because I’ve had personal experience with it in terms of how it drives and it’s a v6 so I figured it wouldn’t be that much effort to change it over but obviously I was incorrect. Thanks again!
No offence taken. I’m intermediate at best in terms of my experience with vehicles, the only reason why I was considering the Dodge engine is because I’ve had personal experience with it in terms of how it drives and it’s a v6 so I figured it wouldn’t be that much effort to change it over but obviously I was incorrect. Thanks again!
#7
12-16-2022, 09:11 AM
If youve got any questions on either route, I'd suggest posting a new thread in the Engine section on here (you'll get a lot more post views vs the new member intro section). We've got a good number of 3800 folks on this forum that can help get you up to speed.
Unfortunately with the extreme levels of electronic integration, most any swap is a real challenge these days and gets worse with every year that goes by. Swapping between brands also convolutes things as often you run into mating issues since many items aren't industry standards (such as bell housing bolt pattern) but are rather brand specific.
To be fair, a lot of people have the same thought you did- that swaps should be relatively easy. You see swaps all the time on various social media sites that make it look so simple. The caveat is that many of those swaps are using an ultra popular swap engine (usually a LS v8) where there's an established workaround for everything into a common swap vehicle (say a FD RX7) where a company has already done the engineering work to offer a bolt in mount + adapter kit.
In your case, youre talking a very abnormal vehicle from an aftermarket support standpoint (in terms of swap kits and things like that) along with an engine that isn't a popular swap candidate (ie most people doing swaps with those engines are taking them out for v8s, not putting them in).
Certainly not impossible, it would just be prohibitively expensive in terms of fabrication time and money.
To be fair, a lot of people have the same thought you did- that swaps should be relatively easy. You see swaps all the time on various social media sites that make it look so simple. The caveat is that many of those swaps are using an ultra popular swap engine (usually a LS v8) where there's an established workaround for everything into a common swap vehicle (say a FD RX7) where a company has already done the engineering work to offer a bolt in mount + adapter kit.
In your case, youre talking a very abnormal vehicle from an aftermarket support standpoint (in terms of swap kits and things like that) along with an engine that isn't a popular swap candidate (ie most people doing swaps with those engines are taking them out for v8s, not putting them in).
Certainly not impossible, it would just be prohibitively expensive in terms of fabrication time and money.
Last edited by bumpin96monte; 12-16-2022 at 09:46 AM.
#8
01-11-2023, 09:55 AM
I found an engine
Hey again, so I found myself an engine. It’s a 3800 series with a boat load of mods including custom fabbed aftermarket parts. Car had a fire, and the engine bay was spared. 17000 in custom work on the engine and I bought the whole car for 1500. From what I’ve been reading, one of the only things I won’t have that will be necessary for the swap is a new PCM wiring harness. The engine is coming from an 03 Monte Carlo and going into my 2000. Am I correct in my research so far that the PCM harness is all I’ll need? Thanks! Any help
appreciated, sorry to bother you.
appreciated, sorry to bother you.
#9
01-11-2023, 09:55 AM
If youve got any questions on either route, I'd suggest posting a new thread in the Engine section on here (you'll get a lot more post views vs the new member intro section). We've got a good number of 3800 folks on this forum that can help get you up to speed.
Unfortunately with the extreme levels of electronic integration, most any swap is a real challenge these days and gets worse with every year that goes by. Swapping between brands also convolutes things as often you run into mating issues since many items aren't industry standards (such as bell housing bolt pattern) but are rather brand specific.
To be fair, a lot of people have the same thought you did- that swaps should be relatively easy. You see swaps all the time on various social media sites that make it look so simple. The caveat is that many of those swaps are using an ultra popular swap engine (usually a LS v8) where there's an established workaround for everything into a common swap vehicle (say a FD RX7) where a company has already done the engineering work to offer a bolt in mount + adapter kit.
In your case, youre talking a very abnormal vehicle from an aftermarket support standpoint (in terms of swap kits and things like that) along with an engine that isn't a popular swap candidate (ie most people doing swaps with those engines are taking them out for v8s, not putting them in).
Certainly not impossible, it would just be prohibitively expensive in terms of fabrication time and money.
Unfortunately with the extreme levels of electronic integration, most any swap is a real challenge these days and gets worse with every year that goes by. Swapping between brands also convolutes things as often you run into mating issues since many items aren't industry standards (such as bell housing bolt pattern) but are rather brand specific.
To be fair, a lot of people have the same thought you did- that swaps should be relatively easy. You see swaps all the time on various social media sites that make it look so simple. The caveat is that many of those swaps are using an ultra popular swap engine (usually a LS v8) where there's an established workaround for everything into a common swap vehicle (say a FD RX7) where a company has already done the engineering work to offer a bolt in mount + adapter kit.
In your case, youre talking a very abnormal vehicle from an aftermarket support standpoint (in terms of swap kits and things like that) along with an engine that isn't a popular swap candidate (ie most people doing swaps with those engines are taking them out for v8s, not putting them in).
Certainly not impossible, it would just be prohibitively expensive in terms of fabrication time and money.
see above I forgot to quote you
#10
01-14-2023, 10:21 AM
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Mentor, Ohio
Posts: 12,225