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#11
11-05-2013, 05:12 AM
Here are my symptoms:
Yesterday Morning, went to start the car, no crank. It was fine the day before. When I let go of the key, the security light was flashing at me.I waited the 11 minutes for the light to go out, and the car started. This is happening on a weekly basis. Not warning!
I can remove the key from the lock cylinder no matter what position the key is in.
Normally, I start the car and the security light is off. After driving, distance veries, the security light comes on steady. But the car has never shut down while I am driving.
Yesterday Morning, went to start the car, no crank. It was fine the day before. When I let go of the key, the security light was flashing at me.I waited the 11 minutes for the light to go out, and the car started. This is happening on a weekly basis. Not warning!
I can remove the key from the lock cylinder no matter what position the key is in.
Normally, I start the car and the security light is off. After driving, distance veries, the security light comes on steady. But the car has never shut down while I am driving.
#12
11-05-2013, 06:28 AM
Today it's 35°. Yesterday it was 34°. I think my security system doesn't like the cold. I get in the car this morning, turn the key, no crank. So I'm sitting hear, late for work, waiting for the security system to time out. The light is flashing weird at me. It fades on. Like the battery is low. But it is showing 12v.
This system Suck-ith!
And it would be nice if the lights didn't come on automatically, if I have to do the whole relearn it could drain my battery.
So I get it started, no security light. I sit for 3 minutes, paying my insurance, and the security light comes on? WTF?
This system Suck-ith!
And it would be nice if the lights didn't come on automatically, if I have to do the whole relearn it could drain my battery.
So I get it started, no security light. I sit for 3 minutes, paying my insurance, and the security light comes on? WTF?
Last edited by JC Colon; 11-05-2013 at 07:16 AM.
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#17
11-05-2013, 07:09 PM
JC- If you can pull the key out of the ignition with it on...you got problems. The only reason I can come up with is that the cuts on the key and the tumblers within the lock must be severely worn. I can't think of any other reason for it.
As for your car not starting for 10 minutes, The passlock sensor is a Hall Effect sensor that senses the magnetic field from a magnet on the Ignition cylinder when the key is in the on position. There are all sorts of convoluted ways of bypassing this online that include taking your dash apart and messing with wiring...but that doesn't work for me. The root of the problem I have found (well technically a mechanic from a shop here in town showed me) is that over time, debris from putting the key in the ignition time and time again block that magnetic field. Without that sensed magnetic field, the Hall effect sensor cannot see that the ignition is turned, and tells the computer that someone is trying to start the car without turning the key, causing a crank no start, and a flashing warning light. GM apparently thought it necessary to be able to override that condition with a 10 minute wait, assuming that any car thief would simply move on to the next car. Lubricants, brass particles, pocket lint, fine pieces of metal from your pocket, all mix into a nasty slurry and gum up the sensor inside the lock cylinder.
Luckily a complete cleaning of the lock cylinder has proven to work, most of the time, to remedy this condition. I will cover this in detail in my upcoming post, however the probability that your key and tumblers are worn severely from a couple of million times of rubbing brass against brass warrants a rebuild of the cylinder, and a key cut to factory specifications.
How is this better than replacing the lock cylinder you ask? Simple. Number 1, It's cheaper to have both a rebuild and a code key done by a competent brick and mortar locksmith shop, than to buy a new cylinder. We charge around $50 for that service if you take the ignition out yourself. (which is way easier than the people online do it) Number 2, Your new key will be just like the one the original owner would have recieved with the purchase of your badda$$ Monte Carlo. None of this one key for the door, one key for the ignition B.S.
Taking the ignition cylinder out is relatively simple if you have the proper tools...which I would assume that you don't, so a simple sturdy piece of rod (about antenna thickness) bent to the proper shape will allow you to reach the ignition cylinder release button at the 4:00 position of the cylinder. (as viewed from the driver's seat) The ignition has to be in the cranking position to do this, so your going to have to disconnect the negative terminal on the battery. Basically you have to snake the rod into the small rectangular hole directly to the 4:00 position of the ignition switch all the way back to the back of the ignition switch, and push the release toward the cylinder. Then pull on the switch assembly, and it will pop right out into your hand. (which I am assuming may be more challenging with a key that can be pulled at any position)
Once you have it out, take it to your nearest locksmith, and tell him that you need it rebuilt, with new tumblers, and a key cut to your factory code. Bring with you all of the keys that you have for the car so that he can judge the cuts of the key.
I will cover all of this in detail soon with pictures...
As for your car not starting for 10 minutes, The passlock sensor is a Hall Effect sensor that senses the magnetic field from a magnet on the Ignition cylinder when the key is in the on position. There are all sorts of convoluted ways of bypassing this online that include taking your dash apart and messing with wiring...but that doesn't work for me. The root of the problem I have found (well technically a mechanic from a shop here in town showed me) is that over time, debris from putting the key in the ignition time and time again block that magnetic field. Without that sensed magnetic field, the Hall effect sensor cannot see that the ignition is turned, and tells the computer that someone is trying to start the car without turning the key, causing a crank no start, and a flashing warning light. GM apparently thought it necessary to be able to override that condition with a 10 minute wait, assuming that any car thief would simply move on to the next car. Lubricants, brass particles, pocket lint, fine pieces of metal from your pocket, all mix into a nasty slurry and gum up the sensor inside the lock cylinder.
Luckily a complete cleaning of the lock cylinder has proven to work, most of the time, to remedy this condition. I will cover this in detail in my upcoming post, however the probability that your key and tumblers are worn severely from a couple of million times of rubbing brass against brass warrants a rebuild of the cylinder, and a key cut to factory specifications.
How is this better than replacing the lock cylinder you ask? Simple. Number 1, It's cheaper to have both a rebuild and a code key done by a competent brick and mortar locksmith shop, than to buy a new cylinder. We charge around $50 for that service if you take the ignition out yourself. (which is way easier than the people online do it) Number 2, Your new key will be just like the one the original owner would have recieved with the purchase of your badda$$ Monte Carlo. None of this one key for the door, one key for the ignition B.S.
Taking the ignition cylinder out is relatively simple if you have the proper tools...which I would assume that you don't, so a simple sturdy piece of rod (about antenna thickness) bent to the proper shape will allow you to reach the ignition cylinder release button at the 4:00 position of the cylinder. (as viewed from the driver's seat) The ignition has to be in the cranking position to do this, so your going to have to disconnect the negative terminal on the battery. Basically you have to snake the rod into the small rectangular hole directly to the 4:00 position of the ignition switch all the way back to the back of the ignition switch, and push the release toward the cylinder. Then pull on the switch assembly, and it will pop right out into your hand. (which I am assuming may be more challenging with a key that can be pulled at any position)
Once you have it out, take it to your nearest locksmith, and tell him that you need it rebuilt, with new tumblers, and a key cut to your factory code. Bring with you all of the keys that you have for the car so that he can judge the cuts of the key.
I will cover all of this in detail soon with pictures...
#19
11-05-2013, 09:08 PM
No meaning to insult you, you know your stuff, That's for sure. So please do not take offense.
I have the right tools to take the car down to nuts , bolts and engine block. I have 30 years of electronics starting with US Naval Advance Electronics. I Build, service and repair computers.
I am in need of your knowledge on this subject, and I can see you know what you are talking about! I only ask that you make no assumptions about me!
Everything you are saying makes sense, but I just got a new key cut by GM in February. But I can see where the lock cylinder would be warn even more by a new key. Causing the key to be removable in all positions.
According to the Shop Manual for the 02 Monte Carlo, the electronics for the Hall Effect Sensor are in the ignition switch. The key only completes the circuit. So cleaning the key and rebuilding the cylinder will be good for the cylinder. I will check outthe cost of that.
I really don't mean to sound like I know it all cause I don't. And I value learning something new every day. I wanna kick myself in the butt for not thinking about a warn and dirty lock cylinder! But getting hit with a brick that teaches you something is a good hit!
I will look into the cylinder rebuild, but the Devils Advocate in me say it's the ignition switch since That's where the electronics are.
I do look forward to your big Post. More info to fill my little brain.
I have the right tools to take the car down to nuts , bolts and engine block. I have 30 years of electronics starting with US Naval Advance Electronics. I Build, service and repair computers.
I am in need of your knowledge on this subject, and I can see you know what you are talking about! I only ask that you make no assumptions about me!
Everything you are saying makes sense, but I just got a new key cut by GM in February. But I can see where the lock cylinder would be warn even more by a new key. Causing the key to be removable in all positions.
According to the Shop Manual for the 02 Monte Carlo, the electronics for the Hall Effect Sensor are in the ignition switch. The key only completes the circuit. So cleaning the key and rebuilding the cylinder will be good for the cylinder. I will check outthe cost of that.
I really don't mean to sound like I know it all cause I don't. And I value learning something new every day. I wanna kick myself in the butt for not thinking about a warn and dirty lock cylinder! But getting hit with a brick that teaches you something is a good hit!
I will look into the cylinder rebuild, but the Devils Advocate in me say it's the ignition switch since That's where the electronics are.
I do look forward to your big Post. More info to fill my little brain.
#20
11-06-2013, 06:16 AM
Dear JC- I apologize humbly for insulting you, as that was not at all my intent. I re-read my post, and I realize that the way that I worded that sounds horrible, and makes me look like I am trying to be a snob or something. I meant to make no assumptions about you, or your mechanical ability. I am here to try and help with what I can, not to demean others.
As for the key pull problem, I will try and figure out why that would be happening. The Side bar should be locking the tumblers in place in the unlocked position. I will ponder that today...
As for the key pull problem, I will try and figure out why that would be happening. The Side bar should be locking the tumblers in place in the unlocked position. I will ponder that today...