normal operating temperature fuel economy
#11
02-25-2015, 09:00 PM
Alright went out and bought an AC Delco 195f thermostat. After a cruise and bleeding air, the picture shows where the gauge likes to sit now.
Still looks a bit cold to me but I'm thinking my gauge is reading incorrectly. Unfortunately I don't have a scan tool that reads temps. Just a $30 scan tool that reads and erases codes.
I'll monitor fuel economy for any changes and update
Still looks a bit cold to me but I'm thinking my gauge is reading incorrectly. Unfortunately I don't have a scan tool that reads temps. Just a $30 scan tool that reads and erases codes.
I'll monitor fuel economy for any changes and update
It will be interesting to see if there is a gas mileage change.
#13
02-26-2015, 01:23 AM
I don't know if my car is a L36 or L67? It's an 02 3800. But I run a 180° stat and my temp goes up to operating temp with no problem. I have not had my PCM adjusted for the lower stat.
You said the Outside Temp was 0°? Remeber, your Heater has to heat the outside air to you temperature of comfort. Also, the colder it is outside, the longer it takes the engine e to reach N.O.T.. And that's with all cars. If you are getting heat, then the engine e is reaching the temp it requires to open.
I suggest driving the car until the temp guage stops moving, then let the car sit running for about 5 min. At that point my guage goes up until the fans kick on. My guage sits at 160° in the winter and about 200° in the summer.
As for your fuel economy, I think that is something else completely. Are you going by the info center reading or ha very you done the actual math? The info center is not exactly accurate.
Also, if you get one of the BLUETOOTH OBD II Scanners, It knows what the N.O.M. is and tells you when it has been reached.
When you replaced the up stream O2, did you check the CAT for possible clog? When was your lat tune up? You need an Old School Mechanic because your fuel economy is low and you are not throwing any codes. At least in my area, if there are no codes, the new mechanics can't Fi d the problem.
You said the Outside Temp was 0°? Remeber, your Heater has to heat the outside air to you temperature of comfort. Also, the colder it is outside, the longer it takes the engine e to reach N.O.T.. And that's with all cars. If you are getting heat, then the engine e is reaching the temp it requires to open.
I suggest driving the car until the temp guage stops moving, then let the car sit running for about 5 min. At that point my guage goes up until the fans kick on. My guage sits at 160° in the winter and about 200° in the summer.
As for your fuel economy, I think that is something else completely. Are you going by the info center reading or ha very you done the actual math? The info center is not exactly accurate.
Also, if you get one of the BLUETOOTH OBD II Scanners, It knows what the N.O.M. is and tells you when it has been reached.
When you replaced the up stream O2, did you check the CAT for possible clog? When was your lat tune up? You need an Old School Mechanic because your fuel economy is low and you are not throwing any codes. At least in my area, if there are no codes, the new mechanics can't Fi d the problem.
#14
02-26-2015, 05:00 AM
redrock "Alright went out and bought an AC Delco 195f thermostat. After a cruise and bleeding air, the picture shows where the gauge likes to sit now.
Still looks a bit cold to me but I'm thinking my gauge is reading incorrectly. Unfortunately I don't have a scan tool that reads temps. Just a $30 scan tool that reads and erases codes.
I'll monitor fuel economy for any changes and update "
This is a good thing (new stat) as for the gauge it is a stepper motor and they are most often inaccurate.
As for your fuel economy or instant changes... it will take 3-7 driving cycles (3-5 days) and 100 miles for the computer to re-learn your changes.
J.C.Colon " I don't know if my car is a L36 or L67? It's an 02 3800. But I run a 180° stat and my temp goes up to operating temp with no problem.Have you not just went thru trans problems, have you changed your cat yet? I have not had my PCM adjusted for the lower stat. In order to change the thermostat in a tune as you say you would have to re-write the complete calibration as there is more than one place that it would have to be changed. Even the people/tuners that are changing the fan % must understand that setting a fan power % to 80% causes the EPM (electric power management to put the charging system into full charge mode causing yet another stress, 25 hp suction on you engine.
You said the Outside Temp was 0°? Remeber, your Heater has to heat the outside air to you temperature of comfort. Also, the colder it is outside, the longer it takes the engine e to reach N.O.T.. And that's with all cars. If you are getting heat, then the engine e is reaching the temp it requires to open.
I suggest driving the car until the temp guage stops moving, then let the car sit running for about 5 min. At that point my guage goes up until the fans kick on. My guage sits at 160° in the winter and about 200° in the summer.
As for your fuel economy, I think that is something else completely. Are you going by the info center reading or ha very you done the actual math? The info center is not exactly accurate. This is a very good point
Also, if you get one of the BLUETOOTH OBD II Scanners, It knows what the N.O.M. is and tells you when it has been reached.
When you replaced the up stream O2, did you check the CAT for possible clog? When was your lat tune up? You need an Old School Mechanic because your fuel economy is low and you are not throwing any codes. At least in my area, if there are no codes, the new mechanics can't Fi d the problem. This information (proper diagnosis and tune up)can help and even to take the fuel you are using into consideration(this area alone can cost you 100 miles per tank) Now for a little on the stuff about new and old mechanics and even consider the self proclaimed tuners and keyboard mechanics. I have 40+ years as a master tech and I also carry AE and AME behind my given name. I read and see crap everyday and for many, many years I have been helping with correct info for people to benefit from. Most posters come to a web site asking what a CAI is and within days or weeks they are giving advice about things the y only read about.. whether it be correct or in-correct.
Still looks a bit cold to me but I'm thinking my gauge is reading incorrectly. Unfortunately I don't have a scan tool that reads temps. Just a $30 scan tool that reads and erases codes.
I'll monitor fuel economy for any changes and update "
This is a good thing (new stat) as for the gauge it is a stepper motor and they are most often inaccurate.
As for your fuel economy or instant changes... it will take 3-7 driving cycles (3-5 days) and 100 miles for the computer to re-learn your changes.
J.C.Colon " I don't know if my car is a L36 or L67? It's an 02 3800. But I run a 180° stat and my temp goes up to operating temp with no problem.Have you not just went thru trans problems, have you changed your cat yet? I have not had my PCM adjusted for the lower stat. In order to change the thermostat in a tune as you say you would have to re-write the complete calibration as there is more than one place that it would have to be changed. Even the people/tuners that are changing the fan % must understand that setting a fan power % to 80% causes the EPM (electric power management to put the charging system into full charge mode causing yet another stress, 25 hp suction on you engine.
You said the Outside Temp was 0°? Remeber, your Heater has to heat the outside air to you temperature of comfort. Also, the colder it is outside, the longer it takes the engine e to reach N.O.T.. And that's with all cars. If you are getting heat, then the engine e is reaching the temp it requires to open.
I suggest driving the car until the temp guage stops moving, then let the car sit running for about 5 min. At that point my guage goes up until the fans kick on. My guage sits at 160° in the winter and about 200° in the summer.
As for your fuel economy, I think that is something else completely. Are you going by the info center reading or ha very you done the actual math? The info center is not exactly accurate. This is a very good point
Also, if you get one of the BLUETOOTH OBD II Scanners, It knows what the N.O.M. is and tells you when it has been reached.
When you replaced the up stream O2, did you check the CAT for possible clog? When was your lat tune up? You need an Old School Mechanic because your fuel economy is low and you are not throwing any codes. At least in my area, if there are no codes, the new mechanics can't Fi d the problem. This information (proper diagnosis and tune up)can help and even to take the fuel you are using into consideration(this area alone can cost you 100 miles per tank) Now for a little on the stuff about new and old mechanics and even consider the self proclaimed tuners and keyboard mechanics. I have 40+ years as a master tech and I also carry AE and AME behind my given name. I read and see crap everyday and for many, many years I have been helping with correct info for people to benefit from. Most posters come to a web site asking what a CAI is and within days or weeks they are giving advice about things the y only read about.. whether it be correct or in-correct.
#15
02-26-2015, 06:48 PM
When I calculated MPG. I reset trip odometer when I filled up, then divided the miles by the amount of gas it took next fill up.
I never looked into the catalytic converter, when I did upstream O2 I just went at it from up top through the engine bay. Come to think of it I'm not sure how to test a cat. For blockages. Look for it to glow red from too much heat? Cut it out and look yourself? Wouldn't a faulty cat trigger codes? or is it one of those things that may or may not throw codes? I will say when I put the pedal down it goes fast. I don't notice any hesitation or performance problems besides the fuel economy. I figure I'll run about two tanks of gas and hope one of them goes more than 220miles with 12 gallons.
I never looked into the catalytic converter, when I did upstream O2 I just went at it from up top through the engine bay. Come to think of it I'm not sure how to test a cat. For blockages. Look for it to glow red from too much heat? Cut it out and look yourself? Wouldn't a faulty cat trigger codes? or is it one of those things that may or may not throw codes? I will say when I put the pedal down it goes fast. I don't notice any hesitation or performance problems besides the fuel economy. I figure I'll run about two tanks of gas and hope one of them goes more than 220miles with 12 gallons.
#16
02-26-2015, 08:14 PM
Gas Mileage; fill tank, reset odometer, divide mileage by next fill up gallons from receipt.
CAT; drive to op temp, then let sit idle for 10 min. Look at the CAT to see if it is Red Hot. If so, it's clogged.
Now, min never got red hot and had no egg smell unless in the garage. But I did get a up stream 02 code. I'm not saying that's the norm. My car did Everything Weird. My gas mileage was Low but my car performed good, or at least what I thought was good!
Keep in mind, there are Many things that will decrease gas mileage. Best bet is to take it in to a shop for diagnostics! You can do the work yourself if you choose. But by taking it in for Diagnosis, you will know what to fix.
CAT; drive to op temp, then let sit idle for 10 min. Look at the CAT to see if it is Red Hot. If so, it's clogged.
Now, min never got red hot and had no egg smell unless in the garage. But I did get a up stream 02 code. I'm not saying that's the norm. My car did Everything Weird. My gas mileage was Low but my car performed good, or at least what I thought was good!
Keep in mind, there are Many things that will decrease gas mileage. Best bet is to take it in to a shop for diagnostics! You can do the work yourself if you choose. But by taking it in for Diagnosis, you will know what to fix.
#17
02-27-2015, 04:34 AM
When I calculated MPG. I reset trip odometer when I filled up, then divided the miles by the amount of gas it took next fill up.
I never looked into the catalytic converter, when I did upstream O2 I just went at it from up top through the engine bay. Come to think of it I'm not sure how to test a cat. For blockages. Look for it to glow red from too much heat? Cut it out and look yourself? Wouldn't a faulty cat trigger codes? or is it one of those things that may or may not throw codes? I will say when I put the pedal down it goes fast. I don't notice any hesitation or performance problems besides the fuel economy. I figure I'll run about two tanks of gas and hope one of them goes more than 220miles with 12 gallons.
I never looked into the catalytic converter, when I did upstream O2 I just went at it from up top through the engine bay. Come to think of it I'm not sure how to test a cat. For blockages. Look for it to glow red from too much heat? Cut it out and look yourself? Wouldn't a faulty cat trigger codes? or is it one of those things that may or may not throw codes? I will say when I put the pedal down it goes fast. I don't notice any hesitation or performance problems besides the fuel economy. I figure I'll run about two tanks of gas and hope one of them goes more than 220miles with 12 gallons.
I am not sure where your concern for the cat came from as it was not previously mentioned in the post. Maybe you read it in the answer/response I made to JC`s car. He was telling how it was, temperature wise ok to run the 180* stat and I was being polite about all his problems he has encountered because he refuses to understand what I am telling him. (use the proper factory stat.) This simple inexpensive part has cost him much trouble and expense but yet he continues to tell posters to use the 180*stat. I am not beating on him, I just want him to see why his path with minion has been so ruff and will now repeat itself again until the small inexpensive culprit is fixed.
#18
02-27-2015, 07:52 AM
I am not sure where your concern for the cat came from as it was not previously mentioned in the post. Maybe you read it in the answer/response I made to JC`s car. He was telling how it was, temperature wise ok to run the 180* stat and I was being polite about all his problems he has encountered because he refuses to understand what I am telling him. (use the proper factory stat.) This simple inexpensive part has cost him much trouble and expense but yet he continues to tell posters to use the 180*stat. I am not beating on him, I just want him to see why his path with minion has been so ruff and will now repeat itself again until the small inexpensive culprit is fixed.
Redrock, I wish you all the best, and look forward to hearing that you got everything taken care of. But I am not going to respond to this tread again. And I Apologize to you for all the head butting! The idea is to help you with your car, not to claim that other members responding only repeat what they read. I do read, but I also have 36 years of experience. I have the tools, frustrations and Bloody Knuckles to back that up. I also passed the ASE basic knowledge test for 2010 with a 95. But that is not the point of posting here. The point is to read each post in a thread and try to help each other out. This head butting will not help you. So i leave you to the guy with 40 years experience. And actually, I hope his suggestion help you. But I know the head butting will not. So i leave you to him.
I notice though, that other well established and respected members of MCF have stopped responding to this thread as well. "Thing the make you go "Hmmm!""
#19
02-27-2015, 08:22 AM
It may be the fact that I read his post and he said he replaced the Thermostat with a 195° and nothing has changed. It may also be because he says that he is only getting about 220 miles per tank? At the beginning this is true what he stated... but it was prior to installing the 195* stat and later in the post I suggested to run it for a while and allow the computers to re-learn before making other changes.My path with my car is good. I am about to take her on a 3k mile drive when I move to Seattle. I had it checked by an ASE certified mechanic because I don't know everything, and I what to be sure. But I have no codes, smooth idle and get 360+ miles per gallon. I have no doubt your car runs good but I am simply pointing out the 180* stat is causing you problems .Oh wait, maybe the 180° stat caused my ball joint to go bad, and my Strut tower brace and rear brakes too? Those are the things I'm working on Now! Not all all but in previous posts you say "160*-200*" when up to temp, you also posted in the trans thread about how your TCC lock-up was stuck and more... this is caused buy the temps not adequately being reached between 180*-210* .
Redrock, I wish you all the best, and look forward to hearing that you got everything taken care of. But I am not going to respond to this tread again. And I Apologize to you for all the head butting! The idea is to help you with your car, not to claim that other members responding only repeat what they read. I do read, but I also have 36 years of experience. I have the tools, frustrations and Bloody Knuckles to back that up. I also passed the ASE basic knowledge test for 2010 with a 95. But that is not the point of posting here. The point is to read each post in a thread and try to help each other out. This is exactly what I am trying to do, originally it was to help red rock and then seen from your assistance, which is indeed remarkable! I noticed a very familiar pattern to your cars troubles recently. Just trying to assist you as sometimes we do not see the forest for the trees. This head butting will not help you. So i leave you to the guy with 40 years experience. And actually, I hope his suggestion help you. But I know the head butting will not. So i leave you to him.
I notice though, that other well established and respected members of MCF have stopped responding to this thread as well. "Thing the make you go "Hmmm!""
JC my apologies if you think I am head butting... I have no intention of doing so!
Redrock, I wish you all the best, and look forward to hearing that you got everything taken care of. But I am not going to respond to this tread again. And I Apologize to you for all the head butting! The idea is to help you with your car, not to claim that other members responding only repeat what they read. I do read, but I also have 36 years of experience. I have the tools, frustrations and Bloody Knuckles to back that up. I also passed the ASE basic knowledge test for 2010 with a 95. But that is not the point of posting here. The point is to read each post in a thread and try to help each other out. This is exactly what I am trying to do, originally it was to help red rock and then seen from your assistance, which is indeed remarkable! I noticed a very familiar pattern to your cars troubles recently. Just trying to assist you as sometimes we do not see the forest for the trees. This head butting will not help you. So i leave you to the guy with 40 years experience. And actually, I hope his suggestion help you. But I know the head butting will not. So i leave you to him.
I notice though, that other well established and respected members of MCF have stopped responding to this thread as well. "Thing the make you go "Hmmm!""
JC my apologies if you think I am head butting... I have no intention of doing so!
#20
03-11-2015, 08:03 PM
Okay so I got a few things to update on. Ran a couple tanks of gas since changing thermostat back. Also replaced spark plugs and wires a couple of weeks ago. The ambient temperature in my region has warmed up a lot recently as well 40° instead of 0° However fuel economy is still poor. Haven't gotten a chance to take it to a shop yet to have them figure it out. Yesterday on my way home from work I got a SES light. I was hoping the SES light would point to something causing my bad MPG. Checked it when I got home, it read P0446 EVAP vent valve malfunction. Most common cause is a leak or defective vapour canister vent valve. I have no clue wether that could be the cause of poor mpg or not. But I don't like my SES light coming on, and since I have a donor car that ran like a dream before I destroyed the suspension I figured I would switch this part out. Hopefully fix SES light. Would be badass if it fixed mpg also.
Here's the problem. Looked up online where I can locate the EVAP vent valve. Wasn't really ssuccessful. Decided I know what it looks like and I got two l36's, one half apart in my garage. And I'm still having problems locating it.
Does anyone know where Standard Motor Products #CP409 is located? I replaced Delphi #1997278 the purge valve. ffs of it because the one on my Olds looked newer. But this is the only EVAP valve I can find. I read somewhere that the vent valve is located inbetween fuel rail, and rear valve cover. near alternator and spark plugs. But I don't see spit that even resembles the vent valve.
Anyone have experience with a bad EVAP vent valve? Did you get bad MPG because of it? And lastly where is it located?
Here's the problem. Looked up online where I can locate the EVAP vent valve. Wasn't really ssuccessful. Decided I know what it looks like and I got two l36's, one half apart in my garage. And I'm still having problems locating it.
Does anyone know where Standard Motor Products #CP409 is located? I replaced Delphi #1997278 the purge valve. ffs of it because the one on my Olds looked newer. But this is the only EVAP valve I can find. I read somewhere that the vent valve is located inbetween fuel rail, and rear valve cover. near alternator and spark plugs. But I don't see spit that even resembles the vent valve.
Anyone have experience with a bad EVAP vent valve? Did you get bad MPG because of it? And lastly where is it located?