OK, I'm getting it now. You want to run ARP head studs, but can't get your exhaust manifolds to mount, right?

This is the part that was throwing me:

I thought you bought ARP exhaust manifold bolts and they were interfering with the manifold itself. Thats why I suggested ditching them for stock as holding ability isn't a concern with stock exhaust manifold fasteners.


I will note that I do run ARP head studs, although I have aftermarket headers (TOG extremes). I'm using stock type hardware (bolts everywhere except for that bolt / stud combo on the dipstick bolt).

Where exactly is it hitting? Can you get the manifold on without any of the manifold mounting studs installed (ie slide the manifold straight down along the ports) ? Can you swap from exhaust studs to bolts in some locations? Shouldn't really be a need for a manifold stud anywhere except on the dipstick holder location.

If the stud is hitting the manifold flange itself, can you take a grinder and clearance around the studs? You shouldn't need to take the manifold down anywhere near the sealing surface as the head studs are away from that surface a good bit.

You're talking mixing bolts and studs to hold the head down?

I definitely wouldn't do that. The clamping force of bolts and studs is different for the same torque due to the difference in friction with having a vastly different number of turning threads while torquing. You don't really want different clamp loads on different parts of the same head.

Id either figure out how to make the studs work 100% or do all stock bolts.

 

Yeah, as mentioned above it was a 3.4 DOHC. They're a 60 degree V (instead of the 3800 90 degree), so there's less space in the valley. That engine was never designed to fit under a stock hood supercharged, and when you add the height of the manifold, plus adapter, plus blower - that puts the top way up in the air.

Yours should fit without an IC - its that added height under it thats bumping it up.

How far off are you? Quite a few people have run cradle spacers to drop the engine down with ICs.

May let you run the stock hood for awhile for cheap while you build the new hood.

One option (but you could obviously DIY this for a lot less money if you had access to materials):

https://zzperformance.com/products/cradle-spacers

 

Thanks, I can see what you mean. I don’t want to do that.

 

I’m running shorter dog bones. I’m thinking maybe that has the M90 sitting higher with the intercooler.

I’ll measure to see how high it sits now.

The idea about a cradle spacers is a nice solution. I’ll consider doing that too.

the next time I expect to work on my Monte will be next week.


I have my studs Teflon tapped and torqued. Do you use Teflon tape or teflon paste with your ARP head bolts?

 

Not trying to down talk his work, but honestly that could be done to practically any car. He just custom machined an adapter plate to bolt the M90 down. Its something that could be done by any good machinist with a mill and a block of aluminum.

Huge props to him for actually doing it though, so many people just flat out give up on platforms 'because no companies offer bolt on parts'. Doing stuff like that shows that you can do anything you want with enough drive.

The tougher part is getting the pulley in a spot where you can make the belt system work without having to add a dedicated belt. That generally involves adding an idler or two to reroute a portion of the belt up.

You'll never find an end to that question. It comes up on every performance oriented automotive forum and theres always a bunch of different responses. Some say X works, others say X failed for them and they used Y. Someone else says X and Y failed for them, but they use Z and so on.

I will say tef tape is what ZZP reccomends. I don't think its a good idea as tef tape is intended for taper cut threads and head studs are straight cut - but they've certainly done way more head studs than I ever will, so its hard to argue.

Personally I used tef paste on mine with 0 issues. Ive also got some friends that swear by automotive silicone. ARP also makes a sealer especially for that. Ive personally seen all 4 methods used without problems.

Ive also seen posts (not all 3800) that every single one of those methods has failed someone and have personally seen both tape and arp sealer fail. IMO the important part is making sure its clean. If you've got a bunch of rust and oil crammed in there, no sealer is going to stick to that. Perosnally my engine was out + hot tanked so my threads were 100% clean. I also chased the threads prior to install for the best possible surface.

Id say if you've got tape on it already, you're confident its clean and that you applied enough to fill the void, I'd just run with it and see how it works. Id hate to steer you in any other direction only to see you have issues with that.

 

Thanks for the feedback. Cool explanation behind the reasoning behind ARP sealing debate. I find it somewhat reassuring because I did chase my treads with a old head bolt I grinder to resemble a chase. I also although it may not be a good idea sprayed break clean on Q Tips and swirled each head hole top to bottle a couple of times. It didn’t appear any cotton fibers were left behind. Then I followed zzp’s suggestion to wrap studs 5 times. I’m with you on the idea of riding and see how it work out.

I squeezed some time in for my Monte Carlo before next week. I’ve started grinding away at the exhaust manifold flange to see if it will add clearance. I also took another picture of the blower and intercooler mocked up. It’s really something when I think about the direction my build have took me. I never thought of having intercooler or a belt wrap. I have some ways to go as there are some things I’m still trying to figure out but this is tripping me out. Lol

 

I think price and availability is the other big thing.

I don't know anywhere that keeps track of supercharger production numbers, but Id bet the Eaton M90 is very close to if not at the top for production volume ever made. Back in the 00s and 2010s, L67s and L32s were very plentiful in junkyards. Even just grand prix alone at their peak were selling almost 150k cars a year and the GTP option was relatively popular.

That volume also tanked the price. For awhile there you'd be lucky to get $100 for a used m90 unless it was a gen 5 or was polished or ported.

I also think it helped it was in a sweet spot for engine size. With the stock pulley supporting airflow for 240 crank hp and modular pullies to support up to 400ish wheel horsepower, it was a good fit for practically any 4 or 6 cyl.

 

I’ve been looking at pictures of the ARP Studs that I installed. In the picture it shows how much the rear studs are sticking out the block. I didn’t think the ARP studs bottomed out which is why I didn’t turn until the mid section went below the deck. Is it possible I don’t have the rear studs screwed in enough?

 

Its hard to tell from the pic if they're in enough. Have any pics with the head on? Ideally you'd like the stud past flush with the nut - a few threads past is ideal. Anything drastically past that isn't helping anything.

 

Here’s some pictures with the heads on. It’s a little blurry. The stud closes to the front has a angled side view of how far the studs extend.