you took your car to a quick lube to fix the water pump???? that is your first mistake.

fyi, the likelihood that there is air "stuck" in the passages, are slim at this point. but to answer your question, yes, not properly filling and bleeding the air out of the system could have gotten some air "trapped", but at this point, that would be very little.


you also need to use a scan tool to determine what the REAL temperature of the coolant is. this will verify that what you see on the dash is accurate. because if what you say is correct, then there is something wrong. consider this.....


on your gauge, the temps are 100-260. the stepping motor in the dash is a standard motion, meaning that 1/2 way in between would be equal to 1/2 of the difference. ie there is a difference of 160 (260-100), which means that the halfway point on the gauge should be 1/2 of that difference (plus the original 100), so that number would be 180* if your gauge is accurate. so the issue you have is that it now is at 1/2, to slightly over. consider that 3/4 on the temp gauge would only be 220*.

those numbers fall in to what should normal operating temps are for the car.


if your temp gauge was 1/3 before, then your engine temp would be ~154* which is WAY below what it should be.



did he replace the thermostat? maybe the old one was bad and "open" all the time, which would cause the 1/3 reading on the temp gauge.

 

I KNOW!!!!!! lol, actually, rotflmao. This was a guy my sister knew, and he had done work on her car before, so I figured what the hell. NEVER AGAIN!!!!!!!

He didn't replace t-stat; I did afterwards though. I didn't realize that "1/3 of the way up" would be too cold. That's where it's always been (normal oper. temp) for the last 20,000 miles since 2008. It's funny that that's where it drops back to after spiking, too. Sometimes it actually drops to almost 1/8 up from cold after spiking.

I'm gonna go out now & take the t-stat out and drill the 1/8" hole & see what that does...

And refill and bleed the RIGHT way...

 

you should also grab a scan tool that can tell you what temp the coolant sensor is actually sending to the dash.

this way, you know what 1/3, 1/2, and 3/4 REALLY is on your dash.

 

drilledstatx1600.jpg

 

fyi, here are the two types of waterpumps....

both are metal, one is REALLY cheap, the other is not so cheap. you tell me which one you think he put in. remember the parts guys told you what he walked out with...










my hunch is that the guy got the cheap one, pocketed the difference, and told you it was the "good metal one", since they are both metal.



now that i look more into these pumps, i would would seriously have doubts that the cheap one is flowing as well as the other option

 

That is my thought exactly. Parts store said they gave him the top one, guy said he put in the bottom one. I have no way of knowing which one it was, cuz I didn't take it off yet. I have read that guys have put the (top one) in themselves, had the gauge problem, replaced it with the (bottom one), and problem goes away. That is really what I think is going on. If the hole in the t-stat doesn't work, the pump MUST come off...

 

i would have to agree

 

OKAY: this is the last post I'm gonna make before making the guy take the pump off.

Worked on it again for 4 1/2 hours. Engine cold; drained as much as I could; got more than enough out to be able to remove t-stat; kept all that coolant in clean containers. Opened bleeder on line running to heater core. Poured coolant into hole that tstat sits in till block was filled to t-stat level; nice and slow. Level would sink a bit; add some more. Sink a bit, add some more. Eventually it stopped sinking into block. At this point the coolant level was also at top of rad fill neck, and I had about 1/2 quart leftover from what I originally drained. Did not drill hole (I'll explain why in a minute), and replaced tstat & housing, and opened that bleeder, too. Put my makeshift no-spill funnel over rad. neck. Added about half of what I had leftover before it came out the bleeder over the t-stat & the one by the firewall. Closed those bleeders & added rest of the leftovers from what I originally drained. Start engine; at first nothing (tstat closed), but then coolant level starts rising & falling almost rhythmically, while (quite a bit of) air burps out like you'd expect, and it takes the rest of the leftovers (cuz tstat is now open, and air came out). Add about 1/4 quart to funnel. It takes that too and then seems to not want any more. Jack up passenger side of car so pass side of radiator is about 1/2" higher than drv side. Get (a few) more bubbles. Add about another 1/4 quart. Now everything seems to have settled down; can't really get much more in. So all in all I added almost a quart above & beyond what I started with. At this point, level is staying at top of rad. fill neck w/passenger side jacked up, so, figuring I have nothing to lose, I took the makeshift funnel off, routed the overflow hose to a pail & just watched it for awhile with the rad. cap off. Every 30 seconds or so I get a small bubble. Every so often, some bigger bubbles. Then the fan kicks in, and the level drops enough so I can add about 6-8 ounces of coolant (why would it do that?), back up to the top of the neck. It seems like most of the 6-8 oz I poured in just ends up back in the pail. Did this like 4-5 times. Fill it to top of neck, fan comes on, level drops, add 6-8 oz coolant, then it goes back into pail. Towards the end I started filling AS it was dropping, figuring it can't suck any new air then. Since it kept doing this, I figure I got all the air out. Still got great quality heat, so draining didn't introduce any air around heater core. All in all (prolly) got at least another quart in compared to when I started. Took it for a drive - still same sh*t.

Besides the "extra stuff at the end" I described, what I did is this:


According to the dealer, even if you were to do NO bleeding at all, the air would eventually come out thru the overflow tank. So I am again forced to conclude the pump is crap. That's why I didn't drill the hole. If drilling the hole makes it behave better, I might never know if it was the pump. If there's crap floating around in there cuz the mechanic was careless, and plugging up the tstat, a hole in it won't help.

Besides the fact that compression/leakdown/HC tests all passed, if a blown head gasket really was constantly injecting air into the system, and this is the source of the bubbles every 30 seconds or so, wouldn't you be able to smell it? You would have been laughing your *** off watching me with my nose down inside the fill neck LOL...

Like I said, I've exhausted all the logical stuff; so I'm resorting to the insane stuff. I told him today I was gonna try this on least time tonite, and he agreed if it doesn't work, he'll take the pump off. I'm gonna be there when he does it.

Sorry about going into so much detail here: I spent hours reading on other people's experience with this same thing, and right when it seems like they're about to solve the problem, they quit posting (other than the one or two that realized they put a crappy pump in). If he replaces the pump and the problem is fixed, I'm gonna be really pissed cuz that was the FIRST thing I thought of, and I'm not a mechanic. Maybe someone else can read all this and avoid going thru everything I went through...

Oh and thanks again vikesfan: I think you're the only one who believes me when I say BAD PUMP...lol

OH: the temp thing: at one point I watched him to the laser-thermometer thing. According to that, it really does seem that 1/3 = 154 deg. If that's too low, I don't know why - I just know that it was always rock steady 1/3, whether idling, driving around town, or highway - didn't matter. I get it that 1/2 or even a bit more is OK, but it does still occasionally go into the red, and with summer coming, I just want it back the way it was...

 

[QUOTE=vikesfan;613605]this is impossible to do with the stock belt size.




{this does not imply anything about the fans at all. the fans automatically turn off above ~30mph unless the a/c is on. the pcm is coded to not allow the fans to turn on when the air flowing through the raditor is more than the air the fans can pull in.}

im aware of this...which is why i asked what his speeds were. i was just curious




{i am confused on how a dead battery would cause your car to overheat? if the car starts, the alt will still provide ~14 volts to the electrical system so the fans would have still worked.}

a dead cell in a battery will cause malfunctions in the computer, which then in turn messes up sensors. when my neighbor told me to change my battery after this mayhem had happened to me i thought he was an idiot and i simply did it to humor him....he proved me wrong. i put a new battery in it and drove it for about 5 more years no problem




{very unlikely in his case since it had been flushed before}

flushing doesn't always get everything. depends on what is built up in the system. my taurus had to be flushed every 6 months we never knew or figured out why. it was flushed clean, then in about 4 months is was brown again (not milky, just dirty water brown, and this was still happening even after we dropped another engine in it, for all 10 years i owned the car). every vehicle is different. and unless you bought it off the lot brand new, you never know what has happened to the car before that contributes to todays issues





{im pretty sure his issue is the head gasket. which most likely failed after the water pump was replaced and the coolant was not topped off properly. which allows extremely hot gases to circulate in the coolant system and overheated the heads and causing them to warp (they are aluminum and warp fairly easily), which then causes the permanent leak since the seal on the head gasket is now compromised. imo.}

i agree with this.( i think this may have been what killed my engine over)......but what i dont believe is that it happened this fast. so i think that if it is the head gasket...that the gasket was already bad, which is what caused the water pump to go bad, and now its showing more signs of issues.









{if its bubbling, there is a issue that has nothing to do with a sensor or a ground wire. the likelyhood that this is the issue is like 5% chance.}

let me refraze: maybe a bad ground could have caused an issue with a sensor, which is then in turn causing the overheating, causing the bubbling.

the rattling noise is something that very interesting twist in this story.

i think he is right...i think its the pump...why tho is a good question when its new

{if there is "something" in the coolant system, it could very well cause the waterpump to not work correctly or at all. if the old one was a plastic fin version, its possible that one or more fins broke off and is now causing a partial block to happen.}

^^^^ very possible^^^

After the testing of the gaskets i would look back at the pump like you said. take it somewhere else to have another put on, tell them you want the old one back, drive your car for a day and see the difference. if its fixed, then go after the guy for the $$ you had to spend on a new pump. if there was no sign of any overheating before i would think that the pump would be the issue as well, since you have done everything that you could possible think of and researched till you were blue in the face holding your breath hoping to find an answer. i hope that it simply is just the water pump! let us know what happens!!

 

The lower picture is the heavy duty version of the pump. The number and design of the fins will circulate the coolant a lot better then the off brand pump above it. Even if the less expensive pump was installed it should still circulate enough coolant to keep the engine from overheating.

Is the heater control in the max position when you are bleeding the system so any air in the heater core is being purged?

Drilling a hole in the thermostat will only inhibit (not improve) flow. Many moons ago (before failsafe thermostats) drilling a whole in it allowed for flow if the thermostat failed in the closed position. The failsafe thermostats on the market today are designed so if they do malfunction they remain in the open position.

It is normal to see the temp rise while sitting in traffic versus driving down the road, but it shouldn't be a dramatic difference. You may want to check the radiator(s) for blockage in the fins.

Have you traced/checked the gauge wiring? As previously mentioned, when the gauge pegs itself in the hot position it's usually an indication there is a short in the wiring.

The engine may be running within normal temp range and a wiring problem might be causing you chase your tail.