do your research, I take no offense, i just have no tolerence to give advice to some kid who's going to argue something he doesn't know.

 

...Well, back to the purpose of the post...

I think that the 60w x 4 amp you've got should push a new set of fronts and your rear stocks pretty well, but I think that you need to be aware of the amount of bass being directed to your fronts. You should be running either a crossover from your H/U or control the frequency from your amp.
I don't know you or your audio experience, so apologies if this sounds rude, or comes out wrong. Have you tried to tune your system, or are you just cranking up the EQ settings on your deck and hoping for results?

What are you using for a H/U anyway?

 

I decided to replace all the factory speakers with Alpines and add 2 Alpine amps that I already have. I got my type-R 6x9's from crutchfield on wednesday so I installed the 300 watt mono channel sub amp and I was pleasantly surprised how much power that little amp puts out because I had never used it before, it has been sitting in a closet since I bought it. Then I removed the rear deck and installed the 6x9's and hooked them up to the 2 channel 600w amp and ran a new power wire for the 2nd amp.
It sounds amazing now, the bass is no longer overwhelming (it is nice that I don't have to check my pants when I get out) and the sound quality is awesome inside now, and I am still waiting for my 6.5" door speakers to arrive, I ordered them from ebay so it might take a little longer. When they come in I will hook up this other old alpine that I have in a box somewhere, I think it is 30x2 to keep it all Alpine.... 'cept the subs.
I saw a pair of Alpine 10" type S subs on kijiji this morning for $120 so I am going to try and get them so the whole system will be Alpine!
After this is all done, I am going to put all the leftover stuff up for sale on kijiji.
And ded, I have the LP filter on for the sub amp, I have no filters on the amp for the 6x9's and I am going to put thje HP filter on for the fronts. The HU has numerous filters on it, one set on the bass and treble, and another on the bass engine, I am still tinkering with the sound everytime I go for a drive, thx for constructive advice!

and as for evil...dude you are a 'tard...you take no offence then you turn around and insult me? Are you still fighting with your back seat? I swapped out my 6x9's in 20 minutes without breaking my seat!
More speakers always sounds better! That is why I have 13 speakers in my living room on a surround sound system.... remove the rears...geezus that was the worst advice ever!

 

really? i call you a kid and you wanna escilate it with tard? are you really a ****ing kid? i was just calling you a kid because you were bitching like a little girl at my advice. take your own advice and grow some skin.

the porting into the cabin is very usefull, think about it for a second while your trying to think of the next insult you wanna come up for me. the sub is just bouncing around sound waves in the trunk with no exit, asside from the "back seat" where you think it travels through so easily, you realise theres a fairly heavy gauge sheet of METAL in yrou back seat? its not just cloth, your just ending up with a muffled down sound of what the bass is really trying to do. take them out and take a crews and tell me you dont feel the difference. assuming you have decent gear, if you have crap geear..than by all means do it how you like but insulting my methods is childish and immature, grow the **** up kid. you came in here asking or advice than did what ever the **** you wanted, why waste our time reading your thread?

 

Just stating from my experience. I put my back seat or seats sections down for the sub to come in and also to show my amps. But its really loud in the cabin when I put them down and I do have 6x9s in rear deck.

Its very tough to pull of removing the 6x9s and not loosing to much mids and high...You have to have a tremendous front stage to pull it off.

 

I would replace the fronts with some a good component set, run them off your amp, remove the 6x9's, turn the bass down a bit on the subs so it's not so overwhelming and call it a day. That's what I would do..........actually that's what I did

Eviling is right.....but it's definitely not a "one size fits all" kind of application. Ditching rear fill would not be for someone who doesn't place a premium on sound stage and imaging, rather on overall volume and loudness coming from every seat in the car. Since "quality sound" is subjective, I'll not get in to that argument with you but I will say this....for me quality sound = a listening experience that is as close to what a live performance would sound like, i.e., being able to close my eyes while listening to the system and be under the impression that the music/singing/rapping is coming from the band as if they were on top of my hood.

What kind of box are your subs in? Ported or sealed? I have mine in a ported box and it makes a noticeable difference. But if you're facing your sub forward then the difference won't be as noticeable due to cancellation. Having the subs firing forward is not adviseable unless you seal off the box from the trunk ensuring that none of the bass can enter the trunk at all. With the subs firing forward and w/o the trunk sealed off you will have cancellation and it won't sound as good as it could/should.

Have you ever heard the Sony demo vehicle? That thing is loud and clean! Sony stuff can get loud for sure!

So what would be considered a "higher db sensitivity" and a "strong coned speaker" and "good amount of travel"? Like how would I know when I've found a speaker that fits those criteria?

High sensitivity speakers are only better than lower sensitivity speakers at low power levels because the high sensitivity speakers can make better use of the power......high sensitivity speakers take less power to make sound. But if we're talking giving two sets of speakers rated at 100 watts each, one high sensitivity and one low sensitivity, are you trying to say that the one with the higher sensitivity will be louder than the other when both are given 100 watts?

This is true if the goal of the system is accurate reproduction of sound as well as ideal sound stage and imaging. If that's not the goal then lack of rear speakers wouldn't sound good.

But he does know, it's just that SQ isn't your goal so this type of arrangement just isn't for you. If you have a barrier between the sub box and the cabin, the sound will be decreased, get rid of those barriers and the sound will increase. There is no disputing that.

Also, if you have subs in a ported box facing forward and the trunk isn't sealed off, open your trunk and the bass will get louder GUARANTEED! That's due to cancellation....again, there is no disputing that.

I guess it all depends on your definition of "better". Like I said earlier it's not a once size fits all type of application. Me personally, I'll never run rear fill again!

As for more speakers = always sounds better, LMAO. If that's the case, why is it that the best SQ competition vehicle to ever compete dominated competitions for years and retired undefeated with only 6 speakers? He must not have gotten the "more speakers always sound better" memo. LOL. When loudness is your goal, there's no replacement for displacement, but when SQ is your goal the same doesn't hold true. You obviously aren't an SQ guy so the advice given doesn't fit, but that doesn't make it bad or wrong.

 

Hey there! I'm normally pretty tired when I get a chance to use the computer, so I had to double check my advice.

I was basically trying to help our friend out with finding some loud speakers, that don't require much wattage, but still can pack a punch at high volumes. I was also trying to prevent him from buying the lower end Sony speakers that Best Buy carries. Besy Buy likes to carry car audio products with good name brands, but low end lines that are slightly better than Wal-mart's selection.

Explanation for recommendation:
Front speakers are going to replaced and he wanted to use a 60w amp to push them so the sub doesn't overtake the attention of the audio output. Keeping this all in mind I suggested that he get: a high DB sensitivity speaker since he's not running over 60w, a reinforced cone as opposed to a cheap Best Buy Pioneer set with single ply paper cones, and a higher tolerance of maxing out the speaker can be acheived by having more excursion (commonly called travel in coaxial speaker applications).

(And to answer your question, the 100w max speaker running the same ohmic value with a high db sensitivity like 97db will sound clearer at low volume but will maximize the use of its excursion. On the flip-side a speaker with an 89db sensitivity will more than likely be less distorted at full volume, but can give the same problem that he's having now at low volumes.)

 

This is the thing though, you aren't going to achieve the same loudness from speakers rated at 60w as you would from speakers rated at 150w, if you pushed them with their rated power.

I didn't think an explanation for your recommendations was in line, I just wanted you to clarify the specific questions I asked because you told him to look for higher sensitivity speakers but didn't tell him what qualified as a high sensitivity rating, for example.

Excursion is a measurement of travel of the cone of a given speaker, not limited to coax applications, but without you giving an idea of what qualifies as a higher excursion speaker then he would have no clue on if the speaker he's considering meets the criteria.

What did you mean when you said "a higher tolerance of maxing out the speaker can be acheived"?

Re: answering my question, it seems we agree cause you basically said the same thing as I did. However, just to clarify, there won't be any noticeable difference in distortion between a speaker with a high sensitivity vs. one with low sensitivity when both are rated and given the same amount of power. The difference would be that the one with higher sensitivity would begin to make noise at a lower power level than the other. That's why if you were to look at a speaker with a high sensitivity rating, even if it's rated at 100rms, it would show power handling from 10-100watts. But look at the specs of a speaker with a low sensitivity rating and even though it's rated at 100rms as well, it's power handling would be more along the lines of 50-100rms.

 

You will not get a louder result out of a single speaker running less wattage, you are correct. The purpose of my recommendation is to avoid the classic mistake. Most people let price dictate their selection and end up getting a random speaker that sounds ok in the store but that's about it. What you can control by making a better purchase is finding a speaker that can handle higher volumes without distorting and maxing itself out. More expensive speakers have better motors. Generally speakers with better motors come with higher excursion, and more durable cones. So the intent behind all of the recommendations was to get him to buy something that doesn't easily max out or sound like *** in a low power application that will be operating loudly.

You and I are in agreement in pretty much everying you're trying to say. You obviously know what you're talking about, and so do I. It seems like you and I are used to a higher standard of audio systems than this post requires. I just wanted to say something to help 2002MonteSS that was better than, "Take out the speakers because you don't need them." 2002MonteSS has already made his purchase. Let's wait until he gets his fronts in and see how he likes his choice.

 

True. The point I was trying to drive home was for you to clarify what qualifies as a high excursion speaker, what's a high sensitivity db rating, and what's to look for regarding a reinforced or stronger cone. Cause if I didn't know about these things and you told me that I woudn't have a clue what would meet those qualifications.