I am gonna go ahead and buy T.O.G. headers, but I was curious, would I want the direct bolt application, or do I want to include the Flexpipe that comes with the new headers? It's weird, because the website I read said that the flexpipe eliminates vibration, blah blah blah, but honestly, wouldnt I be better to eliminate the Flexpipe and just bolt the R/T downpipe right up to the rear collector?

Any thoughts? Dan, I hope you can chime in on this, as you have had experience first hand with the R/T downpipe...


Thanks!!

-Keegan

 

with it being FWD i say go with the flexpipe

 

Why do you say that?

 

why do you wan tthe headders anyway?

do some reserch on these cars they are pulling dam good numbers out of drag cars with STOCK pipes and even Stock plug wires etc...

Now i would change the down pipe to get rid of the chioke point they call the U bend. other then that some free flowing mufflers and that would be about it.

might change teh resinator out fo rsome thing that can give it some more beef sound then this wisper quiet crap I HATE NOT HEARING MY CAR RUN!!!!

this is why i will take my project truck with stright pipes

 

Actually Lav74 would be a much better member to answer this question because he has TOG's.

PersonallyI would get the TOG's and get the downpipe seperately from 3800performance but I don't know much about the TOG downpipe.

 

Simply put, knock retard. Adding larger headers will allow more air to escape quicker, reducing KR and allowing me to drop into a smaller pulley category without having to worry about detonation in my engine. Not to mention, with a u-bend delete, resonator delete, and the SLP exhaust system, I will gain more than 20 horsepower, BEFORE I drop to a smaller pulley and colder plugs, thermostat, etc. I don't want to be one of those guys that say "Can It take it? Eh, I'm sure it wont hurt anything" I want to be proactive and avoid losing any power because I decided to be a cheap @$$.


-Keegan

 

You would definately want the flexpipe that comes with the TOGs. I can't really call it a downpipe because it's basically just a flange, flex, 45* bend, and a few inches of pipe afterwards that you would weld to the rest of your exhaust, starting off with the cat.

If you do the direct bolt option, you're probably going to crack your exhaust somewhere in the future, especially if you keep your stock upper motor mounts. These engines really rock (literally) on downshifts and launches, and this puts alot of stress on the exhaust system.

The rear header for the 3800 TOG is a solid piece andcollects pretty far down the firewall which is why the down"piece"/flex is so small. Here's a pic to give you an idea: http://www.3800performance.com/Merch...roduct_Count=1

The downpiece is on the far left, then it's the rear header. The x-over and the front header are on the right.

I don't know why you want the R/T cat and pipe piece... it's alot of money for a chunk of metal. You can pick up a carsound or magnaflow hi-flow cat for around $100, and get the rest fabbed upwhenyou're ready to weld. It would come out to alot cheaper than $299US plus shipping, that's for sure. I've heard rumors of the R/T cat clogging up over time as well, but it could be hearsay.

As for getting actual headers, I strongly recommend them if you are staying SC and plan to go deep into your build project (like under 13 seconds in the quarter). They flow so much better than manifolds, and work great on stock or even ported heads. I've used my TOGs on both my previous setup, and this new one, and I have zero complaints.

Manifolds are restrictive, the u-bend is restrictive, and the stock downpipe is a choke hold on the entire exhaust system. At one point it actually crimps down to 1.75" in the bend on the downpipe, since it's press bent, and not mandrel. On a supercharged setup, that creates alot of boost stack and heat when you drop to a smaller pulley.

Sorry for the novel... hope that explains things. Let me know if you have any questions. :-)

 

Wow, thanks Rob. More info than I can digest all at one time.

I also agree with you, headers will help me to keep the pressure down, allowing more timing without KR. I really appreciate the clarification. The ONLY reason that I MIGHT go with the R/T is because the weld shop I am taking it to is just that, a Weld Shop, so they don't have access to fabing pipes, etc. My other problem is, I want to install these headers at home, but if I have to have a shop weld the flexpipe to a downpipe, how Do I drive with only my headers installed, and not welded yet? Won't that be street illegal, and sound like $H!t? Not to mention perhaps the chance for something to break? Maybe I'm just overreacting... lol

Thanks again for the write up!!

-Keegan

 

First of all this was not said becuse i am a cheap ***. it was said due to the numbers i have personnaly seen on this same topic on the net, and also in watching some local folks that race,in lookign at the headders a frend has on his car and in comparison to what i have on mine. there was not enough of a diffrence there.

BUT we are intiteled to our opinions here this is not a direct attac on you or me just stateing the facts of what i have personally seen. i would not spend 900.00 on a set of pipes that will do nothing for me.

I can get flow out of what is there with the rest of the pipes being modded the headders just dont flow enouh for me to think that the money is better spent there then some place else.. there are to many folks that have the headders on thier cars that find it out the hard way .
But to each thier own. if you have the cash then go for it. i guess i have no worries i dont care what soem oen thinks of my set up if it out runs you it is doing it right. now i dont have the S/C v-8 in my car. but you can do a whole lot of things with thease cars in just tunning them. there is tons of power locked up in them and if you can figure out how to ge tto it they will really suprise you on what they could be.

do i agree headders are good mods? Sure , BUT is it the first thing i would do? NO!
i have ran hedders since i a was still a punk kid and wet behind the ears. so yes i knwo the gains and know the benifits of havign them on a car that they are benificial to have.

check this site out. and READ it there are tons of things to do on your car to make it a better runner.

https://www.zzperformance.com/grand_prix/articles.php

Belive me when i say i have no issues on makeing more power cant have enough of it but like i said before and will agian RESERCH YOU CHOICES
here is the two cars that im talking of I know for fact that you can make power with out the headders
thank you
https://www.zzperformance.com/grand_...the_99_gtp.php

https://www.zzperformance.com/grand_...t_us_97GTP.php

 

I am buying all new machined heads, a totallynasty cam, not to mention a ported lower intake manifold, newforged piston heads with higher compression ratio,along with, hopefully, an m90 genV, ported and polished. I need headers in order to support the mods I will be doing this winter. I understand how you feel, but with the supercharger, adding the headers alone is going to give me extra horsepower, even BEFORE I drop pulley sizes.

And all due respect, I posted the question: Why the flexpipe?

Not, Why headers? I understand you are a moderator, but honestly.I have my mind made up, and this is not a forum for arguments. I simply was curious as to why flexpipes would be more beneficial over the straight bolt on applications.

And for the record, I was not calling you a cheap ***. I said it as a general statement, because too often the young bucks come in and always ask "Can this take that much abuse?" Thus the cheap *** statement. Please take no offense to that.

And just to reiterate, thanks alot Rob(Lav74) for such an excellent writeup!

-Keegan