Project "Batmobile"
 

Hey ever so ever since i have had my carlo i have called it the batmobile,idk it just came to me,and i have always wanted more power from it,and didnt have a job,but now that i have had one for a while i can see what my income is,i m 19 but its still good to see the money you get in and stuff so you know what you can do to you car lol,now i only have a Ls 3.4l,and from what some one said on here 15.9s on a 1/4 mile for it is fast for the Ls soo this thread is just a list of mods i want to do to my car and show you all the progress of the car,and any input on parts you have would be nice to hear.So heres the list of parts i have in my mind to save up for

motor/power
-MMS Stage 2 heads
-MMS Stage 2 cam
-MMS Complete heads and cam install kit
-MMS ported intake manifolds
-MMS Stage 2 PCM
-MMS 180 t-stat
-MMS 36lb injector and harness kit
-MMS chromemoly pushrods
-65mm TCE throttle body
-Walbro 255 Fuel Pump kit
-Borla Cat Back Exhaust System
-ZZP U-Bend Delete

Ex/interior things (dont need this but could go for it)
-ZZP Coil over strut lowering kit package
-LED Bermuda Black Tail Lights
-Cluster LED (purple)
-NASCAR Rims
-Anzo head lights
-6k HID
-Batman 3rd Tail Light Decal

Wonder what the total cost of that would be and the outcome of performance.
Have you wonder if going this route is going to be worth the cost.
I know its not cheap but swapping from a 3.4 to a 3.8 N/A or even 3.8 Supercharged will result in getting the most performance for the buck.
I don't know what it takes to do so, but there are a few here who have done so, some how have not but can pretty much give you a better idea.
Good luck

$3,314.99 for a 3.8l supercharged

and for the parts for the motor and exhaust is $4,610.95,i have 67,000 miles on my ls motor so it would be around the same miles if i buy a swap one

its much cheaper to find a non supercharged and top swap in most cases, will run you under 2 grand i believe

Is that a brand new one, an l67 and a tranny can be found from anywhere between 1k-2k.

thats true but if you think about getting the 3.8nonsuper for 2k then parts for that,it will run me alot more money then it would with just getting the parts for the 3.4l

but better results, i want to build my 3.4 too, no ones holding you back, just throwin some more options out there for ya

i know man,thanks for looking out for me,but seeing as i have a 03 ls motor with only 67,000 on it,i think ill run it till its gone then get a 3.8 in it XD

also did you see the pics of my time slip that you wanted to see?

oh sorry it was zipper that wanted to see it lol

Yeesh, that's a $3k+ parts list.
Not many people would be bold enough to drop that kind of dough on a 3400.
Best of luck though, I'm curious to see what kind of times come out of a heads/cam 3400 car though.

no thats for a 80k mile motor and hd tranny

for the 4600 id be surprised if you couldnt find a whole gtp with decent mileage. at that kind of money your probably better off finding a whole different car. seems like a shame to throw all that money at your car and it get blown away by a pulleyd l67.

Very true, plenty of modded gtp going for that much.
all we're saying is keep your options open, it can save you some cents for better performance.
Which ever you decide to do, good luck buds.

Check out this 3400, its just sick!!!

http://www.cardomain.com/ride/489266...et-monte-carlo

I'd love to know how much coin he dropped in it.

yea i got you
i cant seem to find a gtp modded :/

but like the reason i wanna do it to the 3.4 is because i just got into drag racing and i m runing 15.9's which is not bad so i think i have a good motor,and not alot of people would do anything to a ls,i really dont need a lot of power just some that will throw me back in to the seat on the green and to beat my coworkers civic hatch lol

Why would you want one already modded?
They are usually around though, and sometimes cheap since most people don't want a pre-modded car.

they said look into it so i did but couldnt find anything XD,i think i might just stick with the 3.4l and mod that,no one really does and i wanna be one of those few that have it done

Maybe it's because I got burned with the 3.4l in my previous car. But I would not put that kind of money into building up a 3.4. Simply because the 1999+ 3.4 engines are not reliable. They have known issues that even GM acknowledged in the form of technical service bulletins for their service techs. Plus, you would be starting with the smallest engine put into the Monte.

I'd suggest going with the N/A 3.8. You'd be starting with a more reliable engine with more power. Then turbo charge from there. Besides, there's tons more stuff available for the 3.8.

I agree comletely. These engines are not solid at all. Lets not even get on the topic of our transmissions. Go for the proven engine put the money in the right place. If you wanna save some upfront money just swap a L36 in there and be done. You can later on do a to swap and be FI'ed. When I started building my engine that is still not finished because of my purchase of a Camaro, I decided that the L67 was the right direction for me to start off at.

Just think all those mods that your planning on doing should put you in the same range as a stock L67/L32. Either way good luck with whatever direction you decide to go in.:cool:

The only real reason to do a 3.4 is to be different.

i see what you mean
thanks for having my back on that

the only 3.8l i can find is from milzymotorsports and it has all of this nice swap goodies
-L67 Engine 80k miles w/ 90 day warranty
-4t65eHD tranny w/ 2.93 gears 80k miles w/ 90 day warranty
-3800 accessories - alternator, power steering, A/C Compressor w/ lines
-custom PCM programmed for the swap
-Modified passenger side axle for the swap
-Supercharged 3800 wiring harness for late model MC/Impala models
-All new AC Delco radiator hoses, heater hoses, and high pressure power steering line
-3/8" and 5/16" high pressure fuel line, stainless fuel line clamps, and quick disconnect fittings
-3800 downpipe
-GTP radiator
-Walbro high performance fuel pump

wut?

You're not looking very hard if the only L67 you can find is from milzy.
Seems incredibly overpriced too, if the prices previously posted in this thread are accurate.

well would a Pontiac Grand Prix Gt be the same motor?

I believe the Grand Prix GT is not supercharged.

If you want an L67, you'll need to look for one from one of these:

W-bodys: Pontiac Grand Prix GTP, Buick Regal GS, Monte Carlo SC SS, Impala SS
H-bodys: Pontiac Bonneville SSEI, Buick Park Avenue Ultra, Buick Riviera

You can find these cars in many junkyards or craigslist.com or even eBay (Morads parts). Don't get the engine from Milzy, he's way over priced and if you do the work yourself, you should be able to do the swap for less then $1000. Also make sure that the engine you get comes from a vehicle that's from 98 or newer.

agreed. all honesty id be surprised if you couldnt find a car in the junkyard that was tagged from behind and get the whole car for under a grand and do the swap at your own leisure at home.

If it's a 2007+, then kinda.
the '97-'03 GT came with the L36. Similar engine to the L67, but no supercharger.

-Riggs.

Wasn't it 05 or 06 because this is when they got ride of the GTP and introduced the GXP. Which then meant the GT got the L32 and the regular Grand Prix got the L26. For supercharged 97-03 got the L67 and 04+ got the L32 and the NA 3800's were L36 and L26(04+) persectively.

What I would do continue to look around the local junkyards or you can also check the W-body forums there are a lot of guys selling engines. Also look into ZZP. I personally don't think about him when it comes to the 3800 market.

I would go with WOTTECH for the 3.4 parts and upgrades, I didnt read the whole thread just the first post and last, so i take it someone convinced you the the 3800 is the way to go...somehow...Anyways, i'm building for 250-275 crank HP on a 3400, with a mild/light cam, full porting, and 120* longtube headers, and a dyno tune. i dont believe in downloaded tunes.
Anyways, Ben at WOTTECH offers even better prices and better work IMO on the 60*v6. I'd personally stay with the 3.4 and build it right.

There's nothing wrong with building a 3400. Except for they are the weaker and less reliable of the two engines offered in the our cars. They are known for engine problems we don't even need to talk about that. I think what I was saying and others as well is that why would you put that much money into an engine like the 3400 just to end up at what a stock L67/L32 enigne out of the box. Have more power and probably maybe come out even in price with the other things that you would need to make it work and have reliablity on your side comparitivly speaking to the 3400.

Your planning for 275 on the high end for your 3400 build so were speaking maybe 240 on the high end to the wheels around there +/- a few horsies. I don't it for me personally it didn't make sense to me. You should post a thread about your build I would love to follow it and read it.

I was a little off, the GTP was available until '05. In '06 the GT got the supercharged engine. The GXP was released in '05 as well, so there was both a GTP and GXP that year. I thought that was true for both '05 and '06.

I don't know if he's convinced, but considering that the potential for power is so much greater with the 3800 (and starting at a much lower cost in the first place), I would explore it as an option.

-Riggs.

i'd like to post up a build progress but right now things are goign extremly slow, right now i just have a empty block and trans, and i'm slowing getting to the headers, the intakes are ported and blended, still gotta do the heads..lots of work, i still have to select parts and build the trans.
As far as why the 3400 and shoot for 275CHP, well, the 3800 was only rated for 20 more hsp than the 3400 for starters, second, the 3400 has alot of great things going for it and is only just started to get explored. Unlike the 3800 which has been around for 24 or so years now. Yes its had its revisions, but it has allowed the after market to widly grow. Trust me, give the 60* a chance and in good time many will be shocked. Next thing on the build sheet for the 60* is a one piece blower intake, and we all know how may people would love that.

Bob

The 60* sounds better for the most part.

There's really not much holding the 3800 back, engine wise. It's already been shown that a stock 3800 short block can take a ridiculous amount of abuse.
It's the FWD platform and specifically the weak transmission that is the big holdup in a 3800 build.
As far as age, the 3400 has been around equally as long in it's current form and even longer if you include the 3100 (which is even more similar to the 3400 than the series I 3800 is to the series II 3800).
The real advantage that comes into it is comparing costs...you're going to pull much more power out of an L67 than you will a 3400 dollar for dollar.

Add me to another one of those people saying to either swap in an L67, or buy a GTP with all that mod money. $4600 will buy you a used GTP (preferably stock) in pretty good shape from a private party- you just have to look around craigslist, ebay, local listings, etc. Also, you can't really compare the price of those parts to what Milzy charges for an L67 swap- as said above, it can be done under $1500- heck you can buy a totalled GTP for $750-1500 depending how bad the damage is, and part out what you don't need that wasn't damaged in the wreck to make up some cost.

I bought a ~70k mile 98 GTP years ago for $1500 that was only damaged down the drivers side. Even leaving the shell and body panels (I only took the parts that would fit in the trunk of my Impala driving home)- I still managed to make back a decent chunk of that money selling parts I didn't need. I'd imagine prices are even lower nowadays.


Honestly, 15.9 is pretty slow- especially compared to new 2010 model cars. I'm not trying to be rude here- but you're really going to want to get at least to the 13/14 second area to even have a shot at most cars on the street (outside of vettes, cobras, etc- I'm talking about normal modded cars). The way I see it, there are two easy ways of doing this:

A) Buy a used GTP. Pro's: 100% OEM reliability, stock gas mileage, absolutely 0 labor work, easy to continue to mod, you'd have 2 cars for what you would've had wrapped up in 1. Con's: insuring 2 cars, possibly buying a lemon if you don't know what to look for buying used.

B) L67 swap: Pro's: not too much more labor intensive than your heads/cam and other mods, easy to continue to mod, OEM reliable powertrain (assuming you install it correctly). Con's: goofed up install if you don't know what you're doing (same goes for the heads/cam on your 3400 though), requires a couple more tools (only thing I can think of is a cherry picker which is only $99 at HF).

Honestly, there is a reason why most people stick to modding the 3800's (L67's in particular). I know I'll probably get flamed for this as usual- but bang for the buck just isn't there on these engines NA (3400 or 3800). Think about it- small displacement, low compression, crappy flowing 2v OHV heads- they just don't have a solid core for making big NA power.

If you want to be unique and mod the 3400- that's cool, but if you're going to drop that kinda money, I'd at least custom fab a turbo or CSC setup or do some direct port nitrous or something that will at least get you some major results for the money spent. You'd hate to drop all that money, and still get beat by basic bolt on GTP's and such.

If your mind is open to the 3800 route- I'd suggest going around to small local dealerships- find one with a GTP, and take it for a test drive- can't hurt anything by at least doing that.

This highlights the point I'm trying to make- you're talking an aftermarket cam (a couple hundred bucks), full porting- I'm assuming this includes heads (easily $1000-2000 depending who does the port work), custom headers ($$ ?), and a custom dyno tune ($300+)- plus I'm assuming all the other normal mods like intake/exhaust, etc- so an easy $3k+ for the average person to buy, and tons of labor just to get on par with a bone stock L32 GTP at 260 bhp (ie 04+), and for less power than a basic bolt on 3.4" pulley L67 (which tend to make at or just under 300 bhp).

This is incorrect- those 'revisions' you speak of realistically break it into totally different engines. None of the GN 3.8 turbo engine mods work with the new 3800 series 2 and 3; nor do any of the 3800 series 1 parts. So its not like all the aftermarket has been accumulating for years. The series 2 3800's didn't appear until the mid 90's, so we're talking only about 15 years of age for the current revision of the engine (and since the performance parts aren't interchangeable to the old ones, they don't really matter)- which also happens to be about the same age as the 60* V6's (3100, 3400, etc).

Here's the thing- I gave up on my 3100 years ago due to lack of aftermarket (at the time there was almost nothing available)- the engines have been out for years, heck the montes have been running a 3100 (virtually the same as the 3400) since 95, and we're still waiting for a decent aftermarket.

My reason with really loving the 3800's has been that you can go out tomorrow and order bolt on parts to hit any power level you want (within reason of course- not talking some 1000+ whp supra style setup)-with plenty of people in the 500 & 600 whp range. You can literally go to zzp, buy the stattama turbo kit, a nice cam, ported aluminum heads, and a built trans- bolt them all on and have an easy 400-500 whp car. Same with the supercharged setup- you can go out and literally buy the parts to make an easy 350+ whp and they all bolt on.

With the 3100/3400/etc you still can't do that. AFAIK there is no bolt on boost solution, and AFAIK there are no NA 60* V6's making the kind of power numbers mentioned above (especially not with bolt on, catalog ordered parts).

Personally, I just got tired of waiting and hoping that one day the aftermarket might drastically increase for the 60* engines.

this might be true for dollar figure, considering you can bolt on a pully to the blower, but what i was going after about the 3800 being around for 24 years is that people have been boosting them with the GP's since they came factory with them, as far as the 2.8 at that time was this anchor. So when the 3800 came from GM with a turbo, go fast guys have been upping the boost, and spending money to make them go faster, and as soon as aftermarket companies saw this, they went after this aswell. Now, only now (maybe since 2004) had the 60* become more popular and worth while to play with. If you actually held a 3400 head stripped in your hands your would realise that some time went into these motors and it comes with a really nice head from factory, and can be improved on easly, and after that these motors are almost full rollers with the acception of the tip of the rocker, which is awesome.

I'm putting my motor together nice and sound with wide cam bearings, heavy timing chain, and SP skirt coated pistons to get rid of all the internal problems these motors have, which the same would be done with anymore to see abuse. and its getting done for fairly cheap, all the bearings are going to come out to $100, pistons are $25-35 each, and the 99-pre chain is $150, i'd go with a double roller but i dont know if i'll have enough time and $ to send the crank out.

The 3400 block can only hold to about 450hsp "boosted" till the valley splits, but the 3500 (which is a whole new story) can handle alot more with the bullit crank, oil injectors, stronger block, and better flowing heads, which are all stock parts. Plans are in the making to push one to 800hp TT.

End result, i would like to see more guys build the 60* only because it will help the market grow more and more. I have nothing against the 3800 aside it sounds like crap (haha), and there is a Huge aftermarket for it. I would like to see the same for a smaller platform, better designed engine, and i mean that by the things i mentioned.

BTW BocaReject, i plan on making only 2 sets of longtube 120* (same idea as 180*) headers for a montecarlo, which i hope to be entierly worth the effort. They would idealy make the motor sound like this:
http://tw.myblog.yahoo.com/ferrari-o...ticle?mid=9902
I would like everyone to listen to this 2.8 Fiero, if you think its fake, scroll to the bottom.


Bob

Here's a guy with a 3400 GA thats supercharged amoung other things and he as you can see has a respectable build:
'00 Grand Am GT 3400 supercharged
13.901 @ 97.34 mph, 298whp 262 ft/lbs
Gotta love boost!

Here's a thread on 3400 build too.
http://60degreev6.com/forum/showthre...nd-Am-GT-Build

If you haven't read through those forums; you should!

When I owned my 99 Grand Am GT, I was on GrandAmGT.com all the time. It was on there that I found out that about a dozon superchargers were made for the grand ams for some reason. I can't remember the exact reason. I think they were part of an experimental supercharged concept Grand Am. They were supposed to go into mass production, but the unreliability of the 3400 engines caused the cancellation of the superchargers. But I remember the dozon or so superchargers that were made have been making their way around from one owner to another.

When I traded in my grand am for the monte in 2007, those dozon or so superchargers were the only ones known to be in existence. But it's possible that a company has since produced more.

I have nothing useful to offer, but this has been a very informative thread.

thanks for all the helpful things guys,this is what i came up with,getting a 3.8 n/a or sc and puting it on,i heard that the sc has problems and that the n/a motor is better and throw a turbo on it or after market sc