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How many miles to you have on your Monte Carlo ? (Please post)
500 shy of a half-million
What problemshave you had with your Monte Carlo ? Please post
Everything. About the only thing I haven't had to do was straighten the frame.
Please contain year & engine in your post.
1974. It came from the factory with a 400 SBC and 2-bbl Rochester carb. Its currently on it third engine; a freshly rebuilt 350 SBC, 4-bolt main, forged steel crank, phase 2 bow tie iron heads with 202/160 valves, roller cam, roller lifters, roller rockers, roller timing chain, forged pistons with coated skirts…
Do you do your own work on your Monte ?
Absolutely. That's the only way I know to get the work done right. Why pay some inept wrench turner to break something, then claim it was that way when I brought it in, when I can brake it myself for free and learn something along the way.
Why pay some inept wrench turner to break something, then claim it was that way when I brought it in, when I can brake it myself for free and learn something along the way.
Absolutely. That's the only way I know to get the work done right. Why pay some inept wrench turner to break something, then claim it was that way when I brought it in, when I can brake it myself for free and learn something along the way.
I couldn't agree with this more. I even hesitate to take cars in for warranty work anymore as I'm currently running about 50/50 on more issues as a result (didn't replace the right part the first time, broke something else getting to the replacement job, lost parts during the replacement job - shields, bolts, etc that were just left off).
The most recent incident I have to share of, what I would call, a big WTF can bee seen in these photos.
I had a long established, well known "professional" builder of custom engines rebuild my engine. They do everything from ready to build bare block to turn-key. I let them know in advance that I'm detail oriented and easily disappointed. Showed a broken pushrod that was left in the engine valley from the previous "professional" builder. Told them I'm more concerned with it being done right rather than quick. Told them to treat it as a hobbyist rather than as just another job. Told them I'd pay a premium for the time and TLC. Had them install the intake manifold. They had it for six-months. From the day I first started it up, I couldn't get it to idle properly. Spent weeks figuring out where the problem was. Went through the entire ignition (plugs, cap, rotor, plug wires, coil, lead wires) again, three different carburetors, tripple checked my ground… It was behaving as though it were misfiring and there was an occasional burning oil smell. I ended up using an IR thermometer to narrow down which cylinders were problematic by checking the temperature of the header tube about a half-inch from the head. The ones on the driver side were 650-800° F whereas the ones on the passenger side were 250-400°. I figured their must be a leak between the head and intake manifold on the valley side of the intake. I pulled the intake and the photos speak for themselves.
The builder blamed FelPro and FelPro blamed the builder. Worse was that neither could tell me what could cause this. Without knowing the root cause, there's no way to know if simply replacing the gaskets will fix it or only temporarily address the symptom; I really don't like to do the same job twice.
The builder did offer to honor his warranty but I would have to take the engine out of the car and bring it in — the builder only does engines, no automotive work of any kind. This car's my daily driver and I didn't have the luxury of putting in that much time not to mention I didn't want to have to do all that labor again so I countered with them paying for a set of steel-core FelPro gaskets and I would re-do the manifold install myself.
It's been almost a year since I re-did the manifold and haven't had any issues. As for the root cause, nearest I can speculate was the builder didn't sufficiently torque the manifold bolts.
The most recent incident I have to share of, what I would call, a big WTF can bee seen in these photos.
I had a long established, well known "professional" builder of custom engines rebuild my engine. They do everything from ready to build bare block to turn-key. I let them know in advance that I'm detail oriented and easily disappointed. Showed a broken pushrod that was left in the engine valley from the previous "professional" builder. Told them I'm more concerned with it being done right rather than quick. Told them to treat it as a hobbyist rather than as just another job. Told them I'd pay a premium for the time and TLC. Had them install the intake manifold. They had it for six-months. From the day I first started it up, I couldn't get it to idle properly. Spent weeks figuring out where the problem was. Went through the entire ignition (plugs, cap, rotor, plug wires, coil, lead wires) again, three different carburetors, tripple checked my ground… It was behaving as though it were misfiring and there was an occasional burning oil smell. I ended up using an IR thermometer to narrow down which cylinders were problematic by checking the temperature of the header tube about a half-inch from the head. The ones on the driver side were 650-800° F whereas the ones on the passenger side were 250-400°. I figured their must be a leak between the head and intake manifold on the valley side of the intake. I pulled the intake and the photos speak for themselves.
The builder blamed FelPro and FelPro blamed the builder. Worse was that neither could tell me what could cause this. Without knowing the root cause, there's no way to know if simply replacing the gaskets will fix it or only temporarily address the symptom; I really don't like to do the same job twice.
The builder did offer to honor his warranty but I would have to take the engine out of the car and bring it in — the builder only does engines, no automotive work of any kind. This car's my daily driver and I didn't have the luxury of putting in that much time not to mention I didn't want to have to do all that labor again so I countered with them paying for a set of steel-core FelPro gaskets and I would re-do the manifold install myself.
It's been almost a year since I re-did the manifold and haven't had any issues. As for the root cause, nearest I can speculate was the builder didn't sufficiently torque the manifold bolts.
That's not a torque issue, that is a seating problem. Maybe the heads were shaved, or the intake wasn't fitted properly. Did you use RTV on the front and rear? If you don't the intake won't seat sometimes. The front looks a bit strange. Never use those rubber things they supply with the gaskets. RTV lets the intake sit where it should on the ports. If he set that intake down properly there is no reason for it to look like that. You did the right thing checking temps, but an easy way to find an intake leak is to shoot carb cleaner on each port and listen for an RPM change. Next time ask them to leave the intake off and you will put it on.
Before I go into how I effected the repair, here are some stats for gearheads:
The engine is a 4-bolt main 350sbc bored 60 over, forged steel crank and rods, forged pistons with coated skirts, roller cam, roller lifters, roller rockers, roller timing chain, phase 2 cast-Iron Bow Tie heads with angled plugs (PN 14011034), Edelbrock Performer RPM Q-JET intake manifold, Quadrajet carb I built myself (perhaps the topic of another post?), HEI ignition, iridium sparkplugs, and unaltered/unmodified headman headers. By the way, I do not have any clearance issues with the headers, even with the angled plug heads.
I meticulously cleaned all surfaces. I used gasgacinch on the large gasket mating surfaces, smeared a thin film of Permatex water pump & thermostat housing gasket maker (designed to be impervious to glycol coolants, unlike regular RTV) around the water ports, and smeared a thin film of Permatex motoseal gasket maker (designed to be impervious to fuel, unlike regular RTV) around the intake ports. I set the FelPro steel core intake gaskets in place then set the intake manifold in place. I tightened the intake manifold bolts in sequence but did NOT torque them to spec, only snugged them down. I let that set for 24-hours so everything would have plenty of time to fully cure. I removed the intake manifold, then meticulously removed and cleaned away any squeeze-out, ooze and runs. I used RTV in place of the end-seals, set the intake manifold in place, bolted it on in sequence to spec then let that sit overnight. I then double checked bolt torque, bolted everything else together, topped it off with my Q-J, ran it for a week to and from work, then re-checked the torque again. No leaks.
I really hate leaks. I see guys use regular RTV for everything which used to make me cringe. You see, I'm a degreed chemist and have been working in the chemical industry for more than thirty years. Different sealing applications require different formulations which is why manufacturers make them. I used to offer unsolicited advice which was almost always dismissed. I no longer let it bother me when these guys blindly use the wrong formulation in their sealing application, after all, I'm only a chemist and extreme classic car hobbyist, what do I know?
Before I go into how I effected the repair, here are some stats for gearheads:
The engine is a 4-bolt main 350sbc bored 60 over, forged steel crank and rods, forged pistons with coated skirts, roller cam, roller lifters, roller rockers, roller timing chain, phase 2 cast-Iron Bow Tie heads with angled plugs (PN 14011034), Edelbrock Performer RPM Q-JET intake manifold, Quadrajet carb I built myself (perhaps the topic of another post?), HEI ignition, iridium sparkplugs, and unaltered/unmodified headman headers. By the way, I do not have any clearance issues with the headers, even with the angled plug heads.
I meticulously cleaned all surfaces. I used gasgacinch on the large gasket mating surfaces, smeared a thin film of Permatex water pump & thermostat housing gasket maker (designed to be impervious to glycol coolants, unlike regular RTV) around the water ports, and smeared a thin film of Permatex motoseal gasket maker (designed to be impervious to fuel, unlike regular RTV) around the intake ports. I set the FelPro steel core intake gaskets in place then set the intake manifold in place. I tightened the intake manifold bolts in sequence but did NOT torque them to spec, only snugged them down. I let that set for 24-hours so everything would have plenty of time to fully cure. I removed the intake manifold, then meticulously removed and cleaned away any squeeze-out, ooze and runs. I used RTV in place of the end-seals, set the intake manifold in place, bolted it on in sequence to spec then let that sit overnight. I then double checked bolt torque, bolted everything else together, topped it off with my Q-J, ran it for a week to and from work, then re-checked the torque again. No leaks.
I really hate leaks. I see guys use regular RTV for everything which used to make me cringe. You see, I'm a degreed chemist and have been working in the chemical industry for more than thirty years. Different sealing applications require different formulations which is why manufacturers make them. I used to offer unsolicited advice which was almost always dismissed. I no longer let it bother me when these guys blindly use the wrong formulation in their sealing application, after all, I'm only a chemist and extreme classic car hobbyist, what do I know?
That's pretty meticulous, but I simply asked if you put RTV front and rear, which you did it appears. I have never used anything on gaskets, and put them on dry. This includes intake and thermostat. I have also never torqued intake bolts. I have a built in torque meter in my hand and brain. Never had a leak, and was a drag racer off and on for over 20 years. You will probably shudder at this, but for our headers we used RTV on them and never had a problem. Seals better than any gasket, and this was for a BB Chevy with Hooker coated headers. I do torque all internal bolts, head, rods, etc. Also wheel bolts on aluminum wheels to 65 lbs. Also used the O ringed Fel-Pro on my 3.8 due to intake manifold problems. Didn't use any other sealant but the stuff you mentioned sounded good. So far no problems. Good luck with that Q-jet. I hate carbs. Switched over to mechanical FI in 1996 and while it took a while due to the long learning curve, once right it was deadly. My 8 EGT's looked like one solid line, since I could change port nozzles to equalize.
I've rebuilt several Q-j's for my two cars myself. The first one (back in the early 1980's) turned out a bit crappy. After learning from my mistakes, I got better and the last few were flawless. I was rather preoccupied getting this new engine built and the car ready to receive it so, against my better judgment, I opted to have a "professional" shop based in Boerne, TX, that specializes in Quadrajet carbs custom build and tune a carburetor for my engine.
After installing it and accumulating about 12-hours of engine running time, I readjusted the rocker arms. I hooked up a remote starter switch in order to turn the engine (without starting it) as part of the rocker adjustment process. I began on the driver's side. Three rockers into this process, I smelled gasoline. Considering I am working inside my garage with the air cleaner removed from the carburetor, I didn't think much of it until I saw a drop of liquid fall from the outside of the carb onto the intake manifold. It was gasoline seeping out between the air horn and main body, the part of that gasket which is exposed outside the carb was completely soaked with fuel.
Seeing how there's fuel leaking from between the carb body and air horn even though the carb was not touched and the stock style mechanical fuel pump was operating only at cranking speed, I could only conclude that the carburetor was flooding due to a bad needle/seat, mis-adjusted float, or bad float. I had been banging my head against the wall for weeks trying to figure out why my engine was manifesting the flooding symptoms, never taking into account the possibility of a professionally built custom carburetor being defective.
Considering what I paid for this carburetor, to say that I was disappointed would be an understatement. I expect shoddy work from today's repair shops where they hire inept air-heads who can't wipe off poop after using a toilet unless they're plugged into a computer that told them where to find their own butt.
I was so utterly disillusioned by that whole experience that I would have preferred to simply return this carb for a full refund and be done. However, being that I am a realist, I was aware that "All sales are final. No refunds for carburetor purchase...". Furthermore, despite its being in operation for only two-months (September to mid-November 2020), unfortunately, I did not discover this issue until seven-months after receiving the carb which put it just over one month outside the time frame for return for service: "Contact QP within 6 months of original purchase if your QP built carburetor has issues that cannot be tuned out with enclosed tuning guide". This is the area where the builder would have earned one star. They offered to examine/inspect/repair the carb, catch is I had to pay for shipping the defective carb back to the shop. They never told me what was causing the problem, only that: “It was disassembled. Changed the needle/seat. Set float changed the air horn gasket and assembled. Tested and needle/seat holds pressure. Also changed the fuel filter.”
I got the carb back on 12/10/2020. I had no occasion to open the package and inspect it until 01/30/2021. Upon simple checking of operation (throttle valves and choke valve open/close) the choke valve was jammed. In, what I can only surmise as a bonehead rookie mistake, one of the linkage rods was not installed correctly (see before photo) which caused the choke mechanism to bind.
Albeit was a three-minute fix (see after photo), it should not have been necessary to fix the “fixed” carb in the first place.
How many inspections/hands did this carb pass through before sending it back to the customer? None of them noticed the choke valve was jammed? Where’s the pride in workmanship? What’s their standard for quality control? I now wonder what else is wrong with this “professionally built and repaired” carb? Just for giggles, I installed and ran it. It runs nicely at wide-open-throttle. The idle, however, is erratic no matter how much I adjust it. I rebuilt the carb I had on the engine before the engine rebuild; shockingly, it worked perfectly. Swapped it for one of the other carbs I built; runs smooth. Tried yet another carb I built, runs smooth. I suspect there must be something wrong with the idle circuit in the "professional" custom built carb. I’m now stuck with a $500.00 paperweight. At some point, I'll tear into it and fix it correctly.
I posted a detailed review about this on both their own website and their Facebook page; both were deleted. That explains why they only have glowing reviews, they delete the ones they disagree with.
As I looked more into this company, I found two complaints filed against them with the Better Business Bureau in the last three-years (https://www.bbb.org/us/tx/boerne/pro...825-1000146148), by the way, they’re not BBB accredited. I wish I would have learned about this sooner.
I am beyond disillusioned, disappointed, and dissatisfied, I am downright disgusted. The money I spent represents an immediate pain in the wallet, but the time I wasted because of this is time I’ll never get back; time I could have spent with my family was, instead, spent in the garage.
My experience of being sent a defective "professionally built" carburetor twice may be an isolated anomaly but it’s a cautionary tale nevertheless.
05-27-2021, 07:14 PM
