what can i do to get more hp
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,147
RE: what can i do to get more hp
ORIGINAL: 04 Intimidator
I like wbodystore.com. I think they have good products at fair prices.
ORIGINAL: JD87SS
Over half of the stuff listed on their sites is pure junk. Maybe its to look bigger, better etc than the next W body store.
Over half of the stuff listed on their sites is pure junk. Maybe its to look bigger, better etc than the next W body store.
ORIGINAL: 04 Intimidator
It think if we took a poll on this site Bumpin would be winning on the comprehension issue. He has proven his knowledge for a long time and it has been backed up with accurate results.
He understands many of the unique issues with the L67 engine and others in the Monte Carlo and his theories are typically accurate and his advice is typically right on the money with only opinions that can differ.
It think if we took a poll on this site Bumpin would be winning on the comprehension issue. He has proven his knowledge for a long time and it has been backed up with accurate results.
He understands many of the unique issues with the L67 engine and others in the Monte Carlo and his theories are typically accurate and his advice is typically right on the money with only opinions that can differ.
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 88
RE: what can i do to get more hp
(Ricer: from the latin word Ricarius meaning to suck at everything you attempt)
A person who makes unnecessary modifications to their most often import car (hence the term "rice") to make it (mostly make it look) faster. The most common modifications are (but not limited to):
- Huge exhaust that serves no purpose but to make the car louder
- Large spoiler on the back that looks like something Boeing made for the 747
- Lots of after-market company stickers they don't or maybe do have parts from, but must be cool. You'll find them on the body panels and or under the hood to tell you what that new shiny part is.
- Expensive rims that usually cost more than the car itself
- Bodykit to make the car appear lower than it is.
- Clear tail lights and corner signals
- A "performance intake"- a tube that feeds cold air to their engine usually located in areas of excessive heat (behind or on top of the engine
- The use of electronic trickers used in order to get a component to do something it was not intended to do instead of correctly fixing that problem, Its also associated with Ghetto rigging.
-Usually found running stop light to stop light and every car next to them at the light wanted to race and they won.
- Never able to break the 14 second mark and think 14 seconds is respectable.
-When the above can't be obtained, NOS, Turbo's and Super chargers are now in order.
- More times than not their own bodies are adorned with accessories .
If the shoe fits!
If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, it just might be a duck.
[/align]
A person who makes unnecessary modifications to their most often import car (hence the term "rice") to make it (mostly make it look) faster. The most common modifications are (but not limited to):
- Huge exhaust that serves no purpose but to make the car louder
- Large spoiler on the back that looks like something Boeing made for the 747
- Lots of after-market company stickers they don't or maybe do have parts from, but must be cool. You'll find them on the body panels and or under the hood to tell you what that new shiny part is.
- Expensive rims that usually cost more than the car itself
- Bodykit to make the car appear lower than it is.
- Clear tail lights and corner signals
- A "performance intake"- a tube that feeds cold air to their engine usually located in areas of excessive heat (behind or on top of the engine
- The use of electronic trickers used in order to get a component to do something it was not intended to do instead of correctly fixing that problem, Its also associated with Ghetto rigging.
-Usually found running stop light to stop light and every car next to them at the light wanted to race and they won.
- Never able to break the 14 second mark and think 14 seconds is respectable.
-When the above can't be obtained, NOS, Turbo's and Super chargers are now in order.
- More times than not their own bodies are adorned with accessories .
If the shoe fits!
If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, it just might be a duck.
[/align]
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,147
RE: what can i do to get more hp
ORIGINAL: JD87SS
(Ricer: from the latin word Ricarius meaning to suck at everything you attempt)
- Never able to break the 14 second mark and think 14 seconds is respectable.
-When the above can't be obtained, NOS, Turbo's and Super chargers are now in order.
[/align]
(Ricer: from the latin word Ricarius meaning to suck at everything you attempt)
- Never able to break the 14 second mark and think 14 seconds is respectable.
-When the above can't be obtained, NOS, Turbo's and Super chargers are now in order.
[/align]
also so you are saying no matter what you do to a car if you cant go sub 14 you will always be a ricer. serously think about it.
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,453
RE: what can i do to get more hp
Well Bump, I was waiting for you.
I knew you'd be back, you just can't resist showing that you really can not comprehend anything.
I knew you'd be back, you just can't resist showing that you really can not comprehend anything.
I can't comprehend modding a 3800 huh? Maybe we should line up my 3800 vs yours? lol x2
Honestly- take an extra minute typing, your spelling and sentence structure is difficult to read.
Those stores I was talking about you just listed.
Over half of the stuff listed on their sites is pure junk. Maybe its to look bigger, better etc than the next W body store.
Over half of the stuff listed on their sites is pure junk. Maybe its to look bigger, better etc than the next W body store.
Then if the motor has been made more efficient, specially volume metrically, it should show itself at the pump.
I spell it out for you. BETTER GAS MILEAGE.
Less pedal is now required to do things it once did with more pedal effort= BETTER GAS MILEAGE.
I spell it out for you. BETTER GAS MILEAGE.
Less pedal is now required to do things it once did with more pedal effort= BETTER GAS MILEAGE.
Looks to me that 95%+ of the readers are 100% in that 98% range and will never see your 2% fast and furious mentality usage and suggestions.
Anything none V-8 will attract Rice like thinking. Just never thought I'd see the day with a Monte being part of it.
- Bodykit to make the car appear lower than it is.
- The use of electronic trickers used in order to get a component to do something it was not intended to do instead of correctly fixing that problem, Its also associated with Ghetto rigging.
- Never able to break the 14 second mark and think 14 seconds is respectable.
Sure its not crazy fast, but its not bad either- and you can hang with most of the 80s and early 90s V8s- and many mustangs and such.
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 88
RE: what can i do to get more hp
Ok, so if most of the stuff from zzp, intense, and wbs is garbage- then where do you intend to get wbody parts from? Thrasher has some nice stuff and a great performance record, but their prices are astronomical and they're closing down. PRJ is awesome, but they only sell a handful of very specific prodcuts. A good chunk of the other shops (3800 performance, pfyc, etc)- sell mostly basic bolt ons, and have a lot more gimmicky parts.
From reading this post and many of the other ones of people questioning certain mods, plus what has been suggested, one thing comes to mind which I saw happen before.
The market did come out with honest performance parts.
Yes, they were pricey, but newly manufactured stuff will be that way, always was, always will be.
What it boils down to is mentality on 2 segments.
CHEAP
EASY
All cheap and or easy mods are all upper RPM, actually last 1000 rpms and are old school things that have been around for years done by backyarders that are CHEAP. Yeah they add power, not as good as it could be, not where you'd use it because your hardly ever in that range.
You abandoned the market, so the market abandoned you.
The only survivors are places like these W body stores run by a group of backyarders, making back yarder type mods and you thought the others were expensive. HAHA. $2 worth of part you dump out $100's for.
These people can survive on $50K sales a year, they have other jobs etc.
Rice was coined by my generation when Jap cars first came out. The younger gen is keeping it alive, but Rice per Jap car really is no more. The original rice now provides those parts we old schoolers are and were looking for on American cars, for Rice cars because they found out, the originals ricers are NOT CHEAP spenders,
Ricers has been redefined!!
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,453
RE: what can i do to get more hp
All cheap and or easy mods are all upper RPM, actually last 1000 rpms and are old school things that have been around for years done by backyarders that are CHEAP. Yeah they add power, not as good as it could be, not where you'd use it because your hardly ever in that range.
You abandoned the market, so the market abandoned you.
The only survivors are places like these W body stores run by a group of backyarders, making back yarder type mods and you thought the others were expensive. HAHA. $2 worth of part you dump out $100's for.
The only survivors are places like these W body stores run by a group of backyarders, making back yarder type mods and you thought the others were expensive. HAHA. $2 worth of part you dump out $100's for.
Since you skirted the issue before- where do you expect us to buy parts from if these 'backyard companies' are so terrible?
Also, since you claim the HPT and PT are so bad- what do you expect us to tune with?
Lastly, if you're so dead set that our modding 'norm' is wrong- then please post up your alternative and what order we should be modding.
In the next couple days, I'll post up a general modding plan for the L36 and L67 to help get this topic useful again. I've already started working on it- its just not done yet.
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 88
RE: what can i do to get more hp
Bumpin,
I don't know what to tell you so you could possibly understand anymore.
Other than the 3800 guys like you, everyone else that has done a larger down, y-pipe or anything else similar when these section are larger than the surrounding pipe sections, the torque and h.p. curve only moves up with a slight increase in overall power.
F-Body guys know this all to well and even was posted by another member that also has heard this.
It also is part of the 101 of exhaust theory that this will happen.
You could yield better results than the swap of a larger pipe if done right.
But this is it, I will go no further on exhaust since 3800 guys like yourself are all hell bent on this.
I think your fighting me like I am a threat to your existence and or stature here, but your really fighting exhaust basics that people whom do this for a living have all ready proved that your way is totally wrong.
WTF am I talking about.
Well again it was clear and you just can't see it since your struggling to hard to discredit me like it really means anything to me.
Since the advent of the 3800, there were many reputable long standing names in performance that made parts.
I can find all kinds of posts on a variety of 3800 type sites that say these parts were available.
Other than a few parts left by these companies, the only other parts available now are by back yarder companies like ZZ, WBS etc.
Its hard to explain to someone like you, but these are not real companies like a Edelbrock.
They were started by forum members at one point and saw a want for some parts and then profit ideals lead from one thing to another.
There is much more to it and I know oh how to well this system works as I was once one of them.
Once the 3800 is no longer a thought in GM's mind, which has happened and once cars and motors really begin to be traded for other vehicles, these companies as you would to call them will close!!
Any true performance company does not put all its eggs in one basket so to speak, so thats all I will say there.
I once developed a host of products for the 4300 in trucks, but none went against the basics.
I sold the ideas to places like Street Performance and a couple of other TBI performance internet startups like ZZ and WBS is.
Tuning wise, do as you like, but I allready more than stated the mail ins are generic and you's don't have the capabilities to either disprove me or prove you are right, because in your ideal you see some gains so everything else is thrown aside yet again.
Nothing and again nothing will beat a tune done while being measured, even on a chassis dyno.
Here locally I can have it done for $300 and be certian I got the most bang for the buck.
There is not one state in the US that does not have multiple such places, just look.
As far as a list of mods, well I covered it here and it another similar post.
Your best bet is to read, learn by methods of a simple library and books.
Everything you will post as far as parts will be of a variety of fly by nights that go against power making theroies and proof that was made well before your time and will continue to be true. Basics have NOT CHANGED, only control via injectors, computers and such have made it better.
I didn't tell you what to buy, only how to look at it and make your own decisions.
I can't make a list because of a few things.
Parts are no longer available and the other would be I have no idea where one would like to end up.
And I know Bumpin, you don't understand that at all.
You have to know the ends so you can pick the means.
Is this person tuning for better street or track performance or maybe some autocross type events?
Your suggestions, again I will state, are all upper RPM deals.
You way of doing it is not gaining the max it could and it will not work for everyone as I stated just above.
So your gonna make a generic list of mods.
I sure do hope you tell use what RPM range its made for, were is gives up to create more in another area etc etc etc etc etc.
But I beat you won't!!!
I don't know what to tell you so you could possibly understand anymore.
Other than the 3800 guys like you, everyone else that has done a larger down, y-pipe or anything else similar when these section are larger than the surrounding pipe sections, the torque and h.p. curve only moves up with a slight increase in overall power.
F-Body guys know this all to well and even was posted by another member that also has heard this.
It also is part of the 101 of exhaust theory that this will happen.
You could yield better results than the swap of a larger pipe if done right.
But this is it, I will go no further on exhaust since 3800 guys like yourself are all hell bent on this.
I think your fighting me like I am a threat to your existence and or stature here, but your really fighting exhaust basics that people whom do this for a living have all ready proved that your way is totally wrong.
WTF am I talking about.
Well again it was clear and you just can't see it since your struggling to hard to discredit me like it really means anything to me.
Since the advent of the 3800, there were many reputable long standing names in performance that made parts.
I can find all kinds of posts on a variety of 3800 type sites that say these parts were available.
Other than a few parts left by these companies, the only other parts available now are by back yarder companies like ZZ, WBS etc.
Its hard to explain to someone like you, but these are not real companies like a Edelbrock.
They were started by forum members at one point and saw a want for some parts and then profit ideals lead from one thing to another.
There is much more to it and I know oh how to well this system works as I was once one of them.
Once the 3800 is no longer a thought in GM's mind, which has happened and once cars and motors really begin to be traded for other vehicles, these companies as you would to call them will close!!
Any true performance company does not put all its eggs in one basket so to speak, so thats all I will say there.
I once developed a host of products for the 4300 in trucks, but none went against the basics.
I sold the ideas to places like Street Performance and a couple of other TBI performance internet startups like ZZ and WBS is.
Tuning wise, do as you like, but I allready more than stated the mail ins are generic and you's don't have the capabilities to either disprove me or prove you are right, because in your ideal you see some gains so everything else is thrown aside yet again.
Nothing and again nothing will beat a tune done while being measured, even on a chassis dyno.
Here locally I can have it done for $300 and be certian I got the most bang for the buck.
There is not one state in the US that does not have multiple such places, just look.
As far as a list of mods, well I covered it here and it another similar post.
Your best bet is to read, learn by methods of a simple library and books.
Everything you will post as far as parts will be of a variety of fly by nights that go against power making theroies and proof that was made well before your time and will continue to be true. Basics have NOT CHANGED, only control via injectors, computers and such have made it better.
I didn't tell you what to buy, only how to look at it and make your own decisions.
I can't make a list because of a few things.
Parts are no longer available and the other would be I have no idea where one would like to end up.
And I know Bumpin, you don't understand that at all.
You have to know the ends so you can pick the means.
Is this person tuning for better street or track performance or maybe some autocross type events?
Your suggestions, again I will state, are all upper RPM deals.
You way of doing it is not gaining the max it could and it will not work for everyone as I stated just above.
So your gonna make a generic list of mods.
I sure do hope you tell use what RPM range its made for, were is gives up to create more in another area etc etc etc etc etc.
But I beat you won't!!!
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 88
RE: what can i do to get more hp
Hell Bumpin, I'll let you go one more step and tell you how.
Since your so hell bent on proving me wrong and you won't believe what I type and the same the other direction, do this.
Halloween is coming.
Walmart has smoke machines.
Buy on and some pipe that clear in any size you like.
Make sure you buy multiple sizes also.
Then configure your pipes like your exhaust.
Connect the smoke machine to the end and play with variables of your larger sections within smaller sections and my not got larger than the exit section of the manifolds and you will then see for yourself what is really happening.
Post the results with pictures.
If I am wrong it will show and I'll leave and never post again.
If I am right and it shows disruptions circular eddies etc, the same for you.
Since your so hell bent on proving me wrong and you won't believe what I type and the same the other direction, do this.
Halloween is coming.
Walmart has smoke machines.
Buy on and some pipe that clear in any size you like.
Make sure you buy multiple sizes also.
Then configure your pipes like your exhaust.
Connect the smoke machine to the end and play with variables of your larger sections within smaller sections and my not got larger than the exit section of the manifolds and you will then see for yourself what is really happening.
Post the results with pictures.
If I am wrong it will show and I'll leave and never post again.
If I am right and it shows disruptions circular eddies etc, the same for you.
RE: what can i do to get more hp
wow, theres enough bull **** in this thread to fill a bath tub.
taz will bere to look this place down before long i guess.
bumpin, we respect your decisions. but could you please be a bit more respectful in trying to debunk others? this isn't hte first time. i remember when you came along to debunk me about nitrous, and quite frankly, you weren't very nice about it.
it's not that we dont' respect your education and input on the vehicle, its your manner of coming along and doing this. thats why JD87SS is tlaking about never posting again.
JD, he's been around awhile... this is his job. He very rarelly makes a post where he's not trying to debunk something somewhere. usually it's in the engine & internal, headers intake and exhaust, or nitrous supercharger turbocharger sections.
NOW ON TO THE HP
The best way to get power is NOT in your exhaust. You either got to go internal, or go for an expensive bolt on. You can pick up a few measly hp's here and there with mufflers, a considerable few hp's with headers... but ultimatly, you got to go spend the big money to cut those low numbers. if you don't believe me, go to the drag strip. nobody is cutting big numbers with these cars with a tune, intake, and exhaust. the guys who go fast have big cams, cylinder heads, maybe a stroker kit.
I've tried cheap mods to make my cars faster.... yeah, I once owned a tornado for a 93 Silverado. You know what this "proven to give More Fuel Mileage, more hp" did for me? 2 miles LESS per gallon!!!! exhaust.. i'd be lying to tell you when i first tampered with my exhaust nad you bend that i didn't wnat a little bit of power. i was disappointed, and learned that cheap, quick hp mods just don't cut it. you got to spend money to go fast, and you got to spend that money on something besides exhaust.
taz will bere to look this place down before long i guess.
bumpin, we respect your decisions. but could you please be a bit more respectful in trying to debunk others? this isn't hte first time. i remember when you came along to debunk me about nitrous, and quite frankly, you weren't very nice about it.
it's not that we dont' respect your education and input on the vehicle, its your manner of coming along and doing this. thats why JD87SS is tlaking about never posting again.
JD, he's been around awhile... this is his job. He very rarelly makes a post where he's not trying to debunk something somewhere. usually it's in the engine & internal, headers intake and exhaust, or nitrous supercharger turbocharger sections.
NOW ON TO THE HP
The best way to get power is NOT in your exhaust. You either got to go internal, or go for an expensive bolt on. You can pick up a few measly hp's here and there with mufflers, a considerable few hp's with headers... but ultimatly, you got to go spend the big money to cut those low numbers. if you don't believe me, go to the drag strip. nobody is cutting big numbers with these cars with a tune, intake, and exhaust. the guys who go fast have big cams, cylinder heads, maybe a stroker kit.
I've tried cheap mods to make my cars faster.... yeah, I once owned a tornado for a 93 Silverado. You know what this "proven to give More Fuel Mileage, more hp" did for me? 2 miles LESS per gallon!!!! exhaust.. i'd be lying to tell you when i first tampered with my exhaust nad you bend that i didn't wnat a little bit of power. i was disappointed, and learned that cheap, quick hp mods just don't cut it. you got to spend money to go fast, and you got to spend that money on something besides exhaust.
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 88
RE: what can i do to get more hp
Well Cowboy, looks like you've been through it.
I have also on both fronts of both doing it and having to deal with it on forums.
I really hate to see people get sucked into buying stuff that will yield them nothing but disappointment that they did it, hence the extreme lengths I go in posting with enough information that a reader should be able to come to a reasonable decision on whether they go light and just eat the cost or go onward to real power and worry about this stuff later.
Let the readers decide.
I have also on both fronts of both doing it and having to deal with it on forums.
I really hate to see people get sucked into buying stuff that will yield them nothing but disappointment that they did it, hence the extreme lengths I go in posting with enough information that a reader should be able to come to a reasonable decision on whether they go light and just eat the cost or go onward to real power and worry about this stuff later.
Let the readers decide.
