Hello everyone!

After reading around and finding out that a regular 3800 engine only has the capability of getting to like 247 hp, I decided that I want to save up for an l67 top swap. I'm prepared to drop about $1000 total. I was just wondering what parts I need to buy, and what their prices are.

Thanks!
Tyler

 

there have been many, many posts/threads on this particular topic, do a search!

General mod plan for 3800s

 

Just to clear up a couple of things, I believe that the limit that you are talking about is referencing Wes Blair's 247whp Pontiac. Our cars typically lose somewhere around 20-25% hp through the drivetrain. So with that being said, if we assume that we lose 20% through the drivetrain, then Blair's car made closer to 310hp at the crank. I actually believe if you really want to push it even more you could make as much as 260whp with an NA L36 based on what the L36 Camaro guys are doing.

With that being said, you're making the correct choice by going with a top swap. You'll make more hp then you would if you did an L67 swap because of the L36's higher CR. My advice to you would be to check out the list here: http://www.wbodystore.com/grandprix/...Kit-p-157.html

I wouldn't advice you to order the top swap from that link however. If you go to a junkyard you will find all of the parts for much cheaper, or if you check out some 3800 forums in their classified sections then you should find a top swap for cheap. Be prepared to spend $1000-1500 and hopefully you won't even spend that.

 

I might be getting one lol. All I need to buy is a tb and a ice bracket. The guy is asking 300 dollars

 

Im going to come out and suggest an l67 swap. I know you wont do it because everyone will say "its got higher compression" and "its cheap"
1. The little bit of compression just makes it more of a pain in my opinion. You might not even be able to run a 3.8 pulley without supporting mods. How far are you going with the car. If squeezing out 5 more hp makes that much of a difference by all means go for it.
2. Once you buy gaskets and all the parts, you will spend around 1000 total, mabye you could do it cheaper but good luck.
3. Id say dropping in the l67 is easier in general.

 

Are you doing all of the mechanical work yourself? If so you MIGHT meet your budget.

It's not the easiest job to top-swap as Brock found out. It can be a PITA

 

Thanks for all the info!

I didn't realize how many parts actually went into a top swap and I'm astounded at how much goes into it. Not sure if I want to right now, but what did you say about dropping in an l67, enzo? And do you guys think it would be cheaper and more worth my money to try to find a goo9d used turbo somewhere?

 

I don't think it is ever a good idea to buy a used turbo. You never know the upkeep and how the bearings in the turbo will spin, how the piping is, etc. etc.

Worth it to just save, save, save for what you really want. I've been saving for another big upgrade for a long time now lol

 

Okay thanks so much chibi! My friend tried to talk me into the fact that its a good idea to buy used car parts, which I though was a bad idea right off the bat. But then again he drives an acura, so he's just starting off wrong. Haha

Thanks for all the help! And ill be saving up for the top swap.

 

I definitely think its possible to get 260whp, or even higher- but the main problem here is cost. getting mid 200's whp out of an L67 is cake, done with simple bolt ons. Doing the same NA takes a ton of money and mods, and you usually end up with a pretty radical cam (worse gas mileage and reliability) compared to an L67 doing the same numbers on a stock cam. That's the big reason why no one seriously mods NA 3800's in the wbody world anymore, bang for the buck just isn't there.

One extra consideration with the L67 swap is what shape is the bottom end in? If you've got a decent mileage L36 bottom end that you have personally kept well maintained its whole life, then I'd hate to screw that up picking up an L67 that might have been beat on/neglected.

Not saying it isn't a good option- but IMO, if you have decently low mileage and have taken good care of your current engine, I'd rather do the top swap, and just spend the extra money on basic bolt on mods to make the stock 3.8" pulley run knock free.

The other thing is, a top swap can be had for much cheaper than a full L67. I've seen people pull off top swaps for stupid low amounts- many of the parts can be had for nearly free because they're not worth much (heck, I've thrown out L67 balancers, and some other misc top swap parts myself because they wouldn't sell). Obviously the bulk of the money will be tied up in getting a blower in good shape- but the rest of the parts can be had for very little if you're patient.

I think that's one thing that trips people up since it sounds so simple- just bolt the heads on up from an L67 onto your engine. Even that in itself is a large task (stripping the engine down to the block and rebuilding it back up)- then you've got all the other considerations like the belt routing system, new fuel rail, etc.


I definitely don't think you could find a used turbo kit for less than the cost of a top swap. Lowest I've seen turbo kits go for is $1300-1500 (new they start about $2400), and you should be able to get the top swap hard parts (ie minus gaskets and fluids) for $500 or less if you look hard enough.

I do think the turbo is a better route- easier install, and more power- but IMO its apples and oranges in terms of overall cost.