91-93 lumina Z34, grand prix gtp and custlass supreme all had a 5 speed manual (getrag 284) from the factory. No W body from 94 and up had a manual trans tho. There is a member on the other w body forums that has a turbo 3800 powered grand prix with the 284 swapped in. He is making some ungodly amount of power to the wheels too.

 

ive been corrected. is it safe to say no l67 cars came from the factory with a stick? there was also a northstar swapped gp with a manual in it.

if you wanted to just tinker i still think getting one from the junkyard would be the way to go. pulling the parts out of it would be a learning experience, and prepare you to do it to your monte.

 

No L67 cars. The 284 manual was only behind the early LQ1s but they are just about as bullet proof as they come. They are rare tho which is why not alot of people swap them. Plus they dont make parts for them anymore so if yours breaks you are screwed. If you could find a donor car with the 284 it would be the best way to swap to the manual, but be prepared for a decent amount of fabricating as the newer w bodies dont have the provisions to mount the clutch pedal and the shifter.

 

For the price youd pay buying a Turbo or Super charger..The parts required to run one...All the tuning and installation..Upgrading the transmission..buying a dual exhaust and what not...Might as well just trade in on an LS4 06-07 if youre only looking for 100 hp or so..

 

That's not going to happen at all. Your engine was factory designed to run NA (ie without boost), so your compression is higher. Obviously you would have to run premium fuel with a supercharger- but you're still not going to be able to run much boost at all without doing some other engine mods- especially if you want to run a positive displacement supercharger- they add a bunch of heat.

So your engine makes what- 180hp stock? Look at the 3800's; at its core it is basically the same engine (6 cylinder, 2 valve, pushrod engine, etc)- but they are a little larger in displacement- they only gained 40 horsepower in stock form going from NA to boosted. The NA 3800 made ~200hp, and the supercharged 3800 made ~240hp. Obviously being an aftermarket install, you could push the envelope a little more, but not +120 hp off just a SC and nothing else.


I think your decimal point is off a little- 1.5 hp maybe? lol No way are you going to get 15 extra hp from a CAI- especially not to the wheels.
They will not bolt on- period. The 3800 is a 90* engine, and your 3400 is a 60* engine (not to mention having two totally different origins, meaning nothing would line up as far as ports and passages go)- the intake manifold and supercharger will not bolt onto your car.

Honestly though- I don't think it makes much sense to spend ~$1000 on exhaust on a $4-5k car. Not trying to be mean here- but a full catback gives little power gain, and your stock exhaust shouldn't be in that bad of shape. IMO, buy a new muffler and tip- maybe a new resonator- and just have them welded to your stock exhaust- you can have that done for a fraction of the price of a catback, and still get the increased sound you want.

I'm sorry, but your firend doesn't seem to know what he's talking about with the MPG deal. There is no way in heck you're going to gain 2.5 mpg from exhaust (otherwise, why wouldn't the factory have used some of the same features in their stock exhaust to increase gas mileage).

Secondly +4 mpg from a SC is a joke, period. It is impossible for a SC to improve gas mileage, given it is the only change. Think about it for a second- you're adding on another item that the engine's pulley system has to spin. It would be like you adding a second alternator, and expecting more MPG- it just isn't possible. It takes power to spin extra items (think of turning on your AC)- which means less power can go to the wheels- which means it takes more throttle to maintain the same speed- which = lower MPG.

Now, the loss of MPG may not be that bad- the Eaton superchargers have a bypass so it isn't always pumping air- but you still have the loss of spinning two huge rotors. Obviously, when you get into the throttle- gas mileage will be much worse. More air in = more fuel in = much worse MPG.

You're also not going to get +15 hp from exhaust- same as the reasons of the intake; 'advertised gains' on generic test platforms don't equate to actual gains.

Yes, they've been done on 60* V6's before. I could've swore RSM racing used to make a bolt on kit for them, but I could be wrong.

Have you ever driven a properly set up turbo car? I mean using a properly sized, modern turbo- lag isn't really an issue. Plus, once you start driving boosted cars- you'll realize you can no longer just floor the gas from a dead stop and go- the tires and FWD setup just can't put that power to the ground; so the 'instant' response from a supercharger seems to be somewhat of a waste- especially on the higher power setups.

You don't need to change the exhaust headers (manifolds) either- many 3800 turbo kits just block off the stock downpipe flange, and replace the crossover pipe with a turbo mount- and supply a new downpipe- leaving the stock exhaust manifolds alone.

Also- you're talking about a big pain and cost to install a turbo- its going to be the same problem customer fabbing an M90 or CSC kit too. Custom brackets- and plenty of one off parts for that too.

Intercooler would also ideally be used with a CSC or positive displacement SC too if you want better performance, especially with your higher stock compression ratio.

A supercharger can blow your engine just as easily- do some searching for L67's (SC'd 3800's) and KR - knock, and piston chipping. Tons of L67's have chunked pistons with a supercharger.

That is insanely high- and by the time you add in labor, fluids and such- you'd likely easily be over the value of the whole car. You can buy an entire totalled GTP for $1500 or less- sure the mileage will be higher, but there are options out there at 100k miles or less. Heck- for that kind of money, you may as well keep your car, and save it just for car audio stuff (since all that extra weight kills your performance anyways)- and buy a used GTP for $3-5k, and use that for performance (heck, maybe even gut it- since you'll have a nice, plush daily driver anyways).

 

bumpin i was waiting for you to chime in. that was a long read, but good as always. thats exactly how i feel when people are trying to do these swaps. just buy a car with the l67 in it, or buy one thats totally trashed, and swap it. on your whole driving modern properly set up turbo cars im going to have to disagree. when you get a chance take a 2.3 turbo cx7 for a drive, the lag is god awful. on the whole point of the turbo being harder to install i agree with bumpin. if a oil line, and intercooler is something that seems too difficult to install then perhaps you should really rethink this whole thing. if youre not mechanically inclined you should really just try to dump your car, and find one with the drivetrain you want. the worst thing you can possibly do is buy a bunch of parts for your car, and then wind up sitting there scratching your head not knowing what to do, get it half done and sell it for way less than you have into it, or get it together only for it to blow up on you.

 

Depends on the car I suppose- I will say lag is more prominent with smaller engine cars that don't have the 'guts' NA to get going until the boost kicks in.

I was just especially comparing it to some of the turbo kit 3800's I've driven. I've rode in 2 3800 cars with pretty big turbos that had noticeable lag- but the basic turbo kit/basic bolt on engine cars don't seem too bad (maybe since the engine was designed to make NA power w/ the higher compression- it doesn't feel as doggy waiting for boost?). There is also always the BB option if you had extra money to spend on the turbo too.

That's a major point right there- I've seen too many people come and go on the various forums that have the exact same thing happen.

It was a big problem back when the 5th gen L67 swaps started- I remember seeing 3 different people give up mid-swap because they couldn't get everything worked out. 1 guy took it to a shop to finish that really cleaned out his wallet- 1 guy parted the whole car out; and the last guy had electrical gremlins (stemming from trying to run a home made hybrid wiring harness) that plagued the car for quite some time- until he quit posting on the forums.

The big problem is- custom part labor is stupid expensive, if you can even find a shop to do it. Most shops don't want to touch engine swaps, custom turbo setups, etc just due to the liability of aftermarket parts and low potential profits compared to normal 'by the book' repair work. If you find one that does, chances are the prices are going to be pretty steep. It gets even worse when you've got something halfway installed and you just can't go any further- then they have to tear everything back apart- replace the stuff you probably broke putting it together wrong, etc- and end up charging you a lot more.

 

agreed, long read, but worth it for the info.

like i said, i don't know any better can't balem me for not knowing.

but yeah, i wish i could do the switch to an SS, that certainly would be a funner car, i mean even with only 180 hp, it's still plenty of power for me, i mean i just thought it might be funt o have something with a bit more oomph, it does annoy me that ive yet to break 90 on this car, ive yet to try, but i could pop 110 in my little susuki with out trying to hard, than again this car is much heavier all in all though, still a fun car, i fell it in love with it on the test drive..talk about playing it cool, I walked away form the deal told him no thank you on his offer, had 3 offers by phone by the time i got home. :p

how is an engine swop gonna run me over the value of my car? if your saying 3100 is way over priced on a SC 3800 with 48k miles, how am i breaking bank on that, when i would likly get a nice penny for the enging coming out int he frist place, since it too only has 50k miles, is automatic, and in FANTASTIC and has been well menatained (previouse owner was a one time owner and it was a weekend driver for some old timer) cliche story, but they do exist

I mean my buddy...again, tells me a swope of an engine shouldn't run me much over 1000$, in fact he even went as far as to say 500-800$ but i honestly coudln't see that kind of labor for under 800$, even 1200$ i might think, but thinking about that in practical terms, with the sale of a good shape, automatic, engine with good gas econemy, i'd probobly sell it for more than a equivilent SC engine.

are there other factors to be taken in, aside form CAI like say the drive train? it should still be able to handle the SC? , i of course still would love to add a CAI, and sombody mentioned something about tirewell? i suppose that would be a great place for cold air, i also see allot of people who put them on the bottom of the engine. lol i had a buddy who had a VW, with a CAI undet tyhe engine but he never put in the valve to keep watter out...hit a puddle and poof :-s

again, these are mroe inquisitive processes, i mean if i do come up with the cash and find one i'd probably do it in a heart beat, but i'm thinking this is more of a challenge right now, just to figuire out somehting like this could be done, i find it interesting to think of, at the very least.

 

the swap is pricey if youre not doing it yourself. im going to go under the assumption that your friend as all the tools you need and has done this before since hes saying its only going to run you 500 bucks. i think if you have all the tools, knowledge, and the drivetrain ready to rock it can be done butt cheap. now you take it to a shop and have them do the swap you gotta figure most shops are goin to charge 100 bucks an hour. i dont think any shop is going to charge any less than 15 hours for a motor, trans, and electical swap.

i honestly dont think your current motor is worth what you think its worth. i mean 3100 for your motor isnt going to happen. not to many people are going to be willing to pony up that kind of cash for a motor when they can buy a whole 3400 car for that. the only people probably looking for a 3400 are people that have a car with it in it, and blew up on them. they obviously cant afford a different car so theyre probably looking for a motor under a grand.

considering that your car is relatively new and has such low mileage why dont you comb dealerships and look for 04 and older gtp or regal gs and try and trade it? or like i said sell it out right. u should be able to get a fair price for it definitely enough to get a l67 car with money to spare.

 

I'd trade my monte for a G6 in a heart beat : D such lovely cars.