found a guy who is selling the zzp stage 1 TB w/ TPS and IAC for L67 grand prix, and since i just got the ss m90 kit for my L36 monte, figured it would be the way to go. just got a few questions.

i know i'll have to modify the pcm for the MAF, but if he has the 97/98 TB and i need the 99+ TB would it still work?

no difference in TB from the grand prix and the monte's right? linkage and all that stuff is the same?

the only thing i would need is a MAF, he's asking 110. probably offer 100 shipped.

 

The 97/98 vs 99 TB thing deals with how the MAF sensor is mounted in the TB. Go to this tech article and look at the pic on the right:

http://www.zzperformance.com/grand_p...les1.php?id=39

The TB on the left is the 99+ style, as you can see- the MAF just hangs out in the open. The TB on the right (with the big aluminum pole in the middle) has the MAF sitting inside that big pole. They do use a different MAF sensor. However, the rest of the stuff is the same between the two- thats the only difference. They're interchangeable as long as you use the correct MAF table.

Keep in mind, the factory MAF is stupid expensive from parts stores. My stock MAF on my 99 GTP went bad about a month ago (it would occasionally peg the top and bottom flow limits and almost kill the car while driving)- the local parts stores were asking $125+ for it.

I just ended up stealing the external LS2 MAF off my monte that I got off ebay brand new for ~$25 shipped.


Are you getting your blower inlet opened to accept the bigger TB too? You also may want to keep an eye out for 75mm N* TB's. I've seen some bare TB's go on clubgp for $20-30, and adaptor plates for ~$50ish. If you got the parts cheap enough, you may be able to go to a bigger tb for just as cheap?

 

how about a fastman TB? its a 97-98 style. i've never heard of them but i guess some people run them. found a guy selling it too, he says it'll work. has all sensors and connections. its 72mm. isnt the stock blower inlet 70mm? im not sure if zzp modifies the inlet at all, probably just keeps it stock. they did tell me that i could run a L67 TB as long as the pcm is adjusted. i wouldnt need to get the inlet matched really, right?

would it work? if it will, i'll just have zzp adjust the tables in the new pcm they are sending me with the m90 kit. they said they will be doing the pcm on monday and then shipping the kit out. that way it doesnt take forever to get it tuned, and i know they'll do it right.

i think i'll be happy with 72mm TB. heres a link for it, can you tell me what i'd need to do, or if it will work?
http://www.clubgp.com/newforum/tm.as...de=&s=#4849810

 

if you planning to port the inlet/out to 75mm you can run the setup like mine just go to the junk yard and get 96-99 N* tb from any of the cars list here: olds aurora, deville, seville, and eldorado. you will need the N* mass air flow that attach to the tb too. for the maf sensor you will not be using the one from the N*. get one from 99- 03 and that should plug right in. there's like no one making the adaptor plate for them any more, but if you interest for the setup i know someone who can make one. he also machine port the blower too. lmk

 

i dont think i'll be going as far as the N* TB. just to the ported L67. how did you change your tables to accept a larger TB silverbullitt?

 

i had custom tune on mine. since you just doing the basic M90 top swap a basic pcm from overkill or instense should do it. just tell them you have the M90 swap kit and they should take care of that for you. when it come to tuning i'm lost in the cornfield just like you. i have no idea how to tune it.

 

Never heard of it- but from clicking on the link, I think its kinda strange they left the big post in the middle. A lot of the ported 97/98 style TB's I've seen machine the big post out, and just run a 99 MAF.

edit- I just noticed that zzp doesn't do it to their stage 1 either, just stage 2.

Its ~69mm, however- the big thing is that the way they make them that size at the factory is by taking the as cast piece (which appears to be ~67-68mm), and running some sort of 69mm mill/drill in about 1/2". Since the casting isn't the same from blower to blower, sometimes you get a step from where they machined- so its obvious its smaller in the inlet of the blower.

Thats why I've never really seen the point in running a larger TB with a stock opening on the s/c. People still claim gains with it- but it just makes sense that it would be better if the airflow didn't have a 2-3mm step that it has to go around just a couple inches past the throttle blade. To me, thats no different than those people who hog out the outlet ports on their LIM to match the gasket- only to leave the stock head ports, so you now have a step there. I realize the exhaust ports are like this, but the step at that point has a reason- its a reversion dam to keep the exhaust from getting sucked back into the cylinder. If the step in the exhaust is to help prevent flow back from the bigger to smaller area, then I would think it would do the same thing on the intake side- only it would be impeding flow in the direction you want it to flow well in.

If you're planning on running a bigger TB, I think its well worth it to have the inlet of the s/c ported to match.

Its definitely not a necessity- heck you could stick a FAST 90mm TB on there with an LS1 adaptor if you wanted to, I just don't like the idea of flow going from bigger to smaller with a single big step- you know?


Yes, it will work- I'm just suprised they didn't get rid of the post like this:

http://www.zzperformance.com/products_img/252_2.jpg

His MAF table had to be modified for the different MAF sensor setup. Really, if you run a ported stock throttle body that doesn't touch anything up in the front 1/2 of the TB where the stock MAF is, you should be able to run a bone stock MAF table for the year of the TB/MAF (ie 97-98 or 99+) and have it get you somewhat close.

Thats cool- a regular box pcm tune should work better then. Only reason I suggested it is that with some of the good deals lately- you could get one just about as cheap as the $140 L67 you were looking at, but a regular out of the box tune is harder to get right with a totally different MAF setup.

 

thanks bumpin', just sent zzp an email asking them to modify the tables on the pcm for the 97-98 MAF for the 72mm TB. they will be tuning the pcm on monday and shipping the kit out. i guess the modified m90 does include clearancing for injectors and outlet work, but it doesnt say anything about the inlet.
changing these tables wont have any effect on the aeroforce gauge readings will it?

 

That sucks- is it really that much more money to get the inlet ported?

No- the gauge only reads the signal outputs of the sensors- tuning the pcm just effects what the pcm does with that information.

 

ya, to do inlet and outlet work its like 200 bucks. cant do all that right now. i've spent a lot of money already though haha.

my dream is to one day find a guy selling his modified m90 with inlet/outlet work done, and he polished it too! haha....only in a perfect world.