6th Gen ('00-'05): L67 Swap, or new car?
#1
07-09-2014, 11:19 AM
L67 Swap, or new car?
Hey everyone, I've come to a point where I've come down to two choices.
Swap in an L67 or L32 and have a nice street and occasional drag strip car.
OR
Get a new car.
SWAP:
Now this is where it gets to the point where I need help from you guys.
I have an option of going with an L67 kit that comes with EVERYTHING (Engine, accessories, fuel lines, PS lines, etc) for a pull out and drop in to run. That engine is 4k with 80k miles...to me, thats not worth it imo.
Option #2 is just get the L32 or L67 engine only with a used 30-60k short lock and then order some performance parts. Now, since its just the engine only, do I have to hunt down the L32 accessories? (A/C, power steering, fuel lines, power steering lines, radiator, etc)? Or can I use a few on my 3400?
Are the fuel lines, power steering hoses, and those little things necessary for the swap, or can I use the 3400 power steering and fuel line to the engine?
Either way, will i break just about even?
I hope I typed this right, I'm at work lol
Thanks everyone!
Swap in an L67 or L32 and have a nice street and occasional drag strip car.
OR
Get a new car.
SWAP:
Now this is where it gets to the point where I need help from you guys.
I have an option of going with an L67 kit that comes with EVERYTHING (Engine, accessories, fuel lines, PS lines, etc) for a pull out and drop in to run. That engine is 4k with 80k miles...to me, thats not worth it imo.
Option #2 is just get the L32 or L67 engine only with a used 30-60k short lock and then order some performance parts. Now, since its just the engine only, do I have to hunt down the L32 accessories? (A/C, power steering, fuel lines, power steering lines, radiator, etc)? Or can I use a few on my 3400?
Are the fuel lines, power steering hoses, and those little things necessary for the swap, or can I use the 3400 power steering and fuel line to the engine?
Either way, will i break just about even?
I hope I typed this right, I'm at work lol
Thanks everyone!
#5
07-10-2014, 11:38 AM
I would go with an L67 swap, but not the one that costs $4k. Just looking through a few craigslist adds I've found a number of GTPs that cost less then that and it's the whole car, not just enough parts for a swap (granted they mostly have higher mileage but my engine has around 170k miles).
Have you considered staying with a 3400 and hooking up a turbo to it? Maybe even a 3500 v6 and turboing that? I bring that up because it's more of a unique setup when compared to an L67/32 swap.
Have you considered staying with a 3400 and hooking up a turbo to it? Maybe even a 3500 v6 and turboing that? I bring that up because it's more of a unique setup when compared to an L67/32 swap.
#6
07-13-2014, 12:56 AM
Your first question is a good one to think about before spending time doing a swap. IMO, the L67 swap is getting to be less and less of a smart move. Back when gtp prices were relatively high, it made some sense to buy a powertrain from a totaled car to swap into another wbody. Nowadays the prices for complete cars are dirt cheap, especially for the 97-03 grand prixs- so it's much easier to just buy an L67 car to start with. Unless you've got some extreme emotional attachment to your current car, it makes more sense to save your time and just buy a gtp to start with. That, or maybe look into another platform too- LS Fbodys are getting cheap too...
As for the swap questions- you should buy a complete powertrain. I mean everything- get the engine with all accessories, bolts, wiring, sensors, transmission, etc etc. It makes things far easier, even if you don't use everything. Trying to buy a short block and piece the rest together is going to be frustrating and expensive for no reason. L67s aren't rare or unusual, so there should be no reason why you can't find a complete in tact powertrain for a reasonable amount of money.
Also, $4k for a L67 alone is nuts. I did a quick search for 97-03 GTPs for sale by private owners locally as well, and the most expensive ones topped out just above $4k (like $4250). That's for a complete running/driving car in reasonably good condition. The majority were in the mid $3000s. To put it into perspective, I bought a totaled 98 gtp for my swap back in 2004 for $1500 or less (can't remember if it was $1500 or $1250). The car was complete except for a destroyed front bumper, drivers fender, hood, drivers door, drivers wheel, etc. I was able to recoup a nice chunk of my money just selling the excess parts we pulled off it.
You also have to think about the value of the car and insurance. An 03 monte is probably worth $3500 private party, maybe a touch more. Spending more than the value of the car (ie $4k) on an engine swap is risky. If you ever sell the car, you probably won't get hardly any extra money. Very few people want to buy someone else's swap mess, and it could be difficult to find a mechanic who will touch it. As for insurance- if you total the car, they're likely not going to give you $8k (car + swap) for a <$4k car unless you have some additional insurance purchased on your policy to cover the mods. Do you really want to mess with telling them about the swap though? That alone could change your rate.
I do hope that's some kind of an inside joke...
As for the swap questions- you should buy a complete powertrain. I mean everything- get the engine with all accessories, bolts, wiring, sensors, transmission, etc etc. It makes things far easier, even if you don't use everything. Trying to buy a short block and piece the rest together is going to be frustrating and expensive for no reason. L67s aren't rare or unusual, so there should be no reason why you can't find a complete in tact powertrain for a reasonable amount of money.
Also, $4k for a L67 alone is nuts. I did a quick search for 97-03 GTPs for sale by private owners locally as well, and the most expensive ones topped out just above $4k (like $4250). That's for a complete running/driving car in reasonably good condition. The majority were in the mid $3000s. To put it into perspective, I bought a totaled 98 gtp for my swap back in 2004 for $1500 or less (can't remember if it was $1500 or $1250). The car was complete except for a destroyed front bumper, drivers fender, hood, drivers door, drivers wheel, etc. I was able to recoup a nice chunk of my money just selling the excess parts we pulled off it.
You also have to think about the value of the car and insurance. An 03 monte is probably worth $3500 private party, maybe a touch more. Spending more than the value of the car (ie $4k) on an engine swap is risky. If you ever sell the car, you probably won't get hardly any extra money. Very few people want to buy someone else's swap mess, and it could be difficult to find a mechanic who will touch it. As for insurance- if you total the car, they're likely not going to give you $8k (car + swap) for a <$4k car unless you have some additional insurance purchased on your policy to cover the mods. Do you really want to mess with telling them about the swap though? That alone could change your rate.
True! But sometimes you just need to go after those Ferrari's
Last edited by bumpin96monte; 07-13-2014 at 01:23 AM.
#8
07-13-2014, 09:41 AM
I guess it really depends what you can get as far as pricing goes (ie what you could get selling your car, what you'd have to pay for an L67, and what you can find for the type of car you want instead). Also depends on if you must have a monte carlo w/ an L67, or if another W body would work (ie GP).
In the OP's example- if it's going to cost $4k parts only for the swap, and he could get $3500 for his car- $7500 will buy you a lot of car at the break even point. KBB shows an 05 SS being just below $7k. Even some of the LS4 cars are getting down into this price range now.
Being more realistic, if you could get an L67 for $1k, and the OP could get $3500- that would still give you $4500 to work with. That definitely wouldn't get you an 05 SS, but it would certainly give you enough to buy a gtp. Just depends on what you really want.
In the OP's example- if it's going to cost $4k parts only for the swap, and he could get $3500 for his car- $7500 will buy you a lot of car at the break even point. KBB shows an 05 SS being just below $7k. Even some of the LS4 cars are getting down into this price range now.
Being more realistic, if you could get an L67 for $1k, and the OP could get $3500- that would still give you $4500 to work with. That definitely wouldn't get you an 05 SS, but it would certainly give you enough to buy a gtp. Just depends on what you really want.
#9
07-15-2014, 01:24 AM
I've thought about it tremendously. Unfortunately none of the options is not very cost effective.
I've come to the conclusion that even though I love my car alot, no matter what option/route I choose, it's just obviously not cost effective to do a build/swap even on a 4-7k budget. The engine alone and sourcing parts, and/or complete package will come out to be even with each other.
After coming to a hard realization that it's not cost effective to do that, I forced myself to let go and look into a new car.
It's going to be tough to loose my Monte as I've had it for 6 years.
I've come to the conclusion that even though I love my car alot, no matter what option/route I choose, it's just obviously not cost effective to do a build/swap even on a 4-7k budget. The engine alone and sourcing parts, and/or complete package will come out to be even with each other.
After coming to a hard realization that it's not cost effective to do that, I forced myself to let go and look into a new car.
It's going to be tough to loose my Monte as I've had it for 6 years.
#10
07-15-2014, 03:22 AM
There is a way a swap can be cost effective, and that would be to buy a parts car for $500 - $1000 and go from there because at that point you have everything you need.
The real question is why not just buy another car and put the M/C to the side as a project? Some of us here have 2 cars and others 3. Because in all honesty, if you love the car, then why part with it? If it has problems then yeah I understand but to the contrary.... why mess around with what's not broken? I'd personally would do a TC 3500 instead and a 6 speed swap since at that point, If I'm not doing the job myself, then I'd be spending loads of bank anyways so why go a common route when there's a better way to build a sleeper? If I had a 3400, I wouldn't even bother with a 3800, especially when bar for bar you can get the same amount of power from a turbocharger as you would from a supercharger. In fact, the 4th gen F body guys TURBO their 3800's instead of doing S/C and in theory we could bring parts from 3800s in Australia (they had supercharged RWD cars and the FWD stuff won't mount to the RWD 3800) and use those on the F body but it's just more simpler to do T/C, especially considering that one could get L67/L32 internals and use them on the L36 and prep the car for boost that way.
I personally would keep the M/C and get a work car
The real question is why not just buy another car and put the M/C to the side as a project? Some of us here have 2 cars and others 3. Because in all honesty, if you love the car, then why part with it? If it has problems then yeah I understand but to the contrary.... why mess around with what's not broken? I'd personally would do a TC 3500 instead and a 6 speed swap since at that point, If I'm not doing the job myself, then I'd be spending loads of bank anyways so why go a common route when there's a better way to build a sleeper? If I had a 3400, I wouldn't even bother with a 3800, especially when bar for bar you can get the same amount of power from a turbocharger as you would from a supercharger. In fact, the 4th gen F body guys TURBO their 3800's instead of doing S/C and in theory we could bring parts from 3800s in Australia (they had supercharged RWD cars and the FWD stuff won't mount to the RWD 3800) and use those on the F body but it's just more simpler to do T/C, especially considering that one could get L67/L32 internals and use them on the L36 and prep the car for boost that way.
I personally would keep the M/C and get a work car