Used L36 with Engine could be purchased for $600 - $1000

(Again just best to find a totalled car, at least you can part that)

ZZP Z3 Turbo = $2400

Built Transmission, just send your transmission to tripleedgeperformance.com, shouldn't cost more than $1500

So that's... almost $4500??

 

I hate to say it, but that sounds like a huge waste of money. $11k could almost buy you a decent F-body, lol.

Secondly, I'd definitely scrap buying a new engine- you're wasting a ton of extra money for nothing; you'll end up with an engine that will far outlast the car. Since your car is already high mileage anyways- I don't see any sense in getting a brand new 0 mile engine- all the other electronics, suspension, body etc will start to go long before the new engine does.

As I, and others have mentioned above- spending $3k for a complete powertrain is way high. I'd bet if you look hard enough, you could get a decent condition 98/99 GTP with about 100k on it for little more; then either just drive that- or part the car out and make back some money- and still have the powertrain left.

Next- forget the cartooning turbo kit- get the ZZP or stattama kits (Z3, Z7, or stattama in order of price and performance).

Next- as far as the trans goes, you don't need a $4k transmission to handle 325whp. The base ZZP trans is $1600 and is rated for 13.0 in the 1/4. Adding the $400 torque converter lowers that to high 12's. Adding a $325 input shaft to that drops it to mid 12's. Adding a $400 single chain conversion to that drops it to low 12's. You can obviously keep going- but thats only $2725 for a trans rated for low 12's. All the expensive, full replacement parts are really only needed with the more extreme setups.


For this setup- you can really subtract the whole cost of the built trans. No need for a built trans on a totally stock L67. If you planned to do more bolt ons and the trans was in questionable shape- then just get the $1600 base trans rebuild.



Honestly, a stock L67 would keep you happy for awhile- adding 60 horsepower, and blower whine will keep you happy for awhile.

You could do a whole L67/4t65hd swap for under $2k easily (you just need to find a better source of parts) with decent mileage on it. That's 200 whp (240 crank hp) and stock reliability (assuming the swap is done correctly).

$5000 is going to add a lot of money for mods; heck for that kind of money, maybe you could just look into a decent mileage L36- I bet you could get just the engine alone for $500 or so with decent mileage- then spend $2000 on the base ZZP trans (thats including $400 for the core you wouldn't have)- and $2500 for the Z3 turbo kit and you'd be set for awhile. Upgrade it with an intercooler and other mild mods later, and it would be a blast to drive.

It depends- if you can't go out and find better deals on the engine and such, then no- not at all. You're talking about spending 2/3 of your budget just on the engine/trans- figure another $200-300 in misc swap costs (hoses, fluids, etc)- and that leaves you with only maybe $1500 to add 125 whp (and thats using a stock trans- any built trans would eat all the rest of your budget)

 

I cant seem to a decently priced powertrain.

How much WHP would i be looking at with either the Z7 or the Z3?


So my first step in the process would be finding the powertrain. (if im doing a turbo setup, does it matter what engine i get? L67 or L32?

next, send out the transmission to zzp for the upgrade?
http://www.zzperformance.com/grand_p...=150&catid=105
What upgrades to the trans would i need for each set-up? Z& and Z3?
"Standard to ALL ZZP transaxles are:

• All new Raybestos clutches
• New solenoids as needed
• New filter
• New sleeves, bushings, bearings and seals
• New bands
• New Borg Warner HV-093 chains
• Upgraded input speed reluctor wheel
• New valve body on shipped transmissions
• Differential gears and pinion shaft checked for wear
• Damaged or worn parts are replaced (bad differentials, or damage to the casing will be billed separately)
• Custom shift kit
• Forward bands replaced with high energy green bands
• Externally adjustable line pressure (ZZP exclusive!)
• Hardened 4th clutch shaft
• Steel channel plate gasket
• Upgraded TCC apply valve
• Differential squirter (ZZP exclusive!)
• GM DEXRON VI transmission fluid

Building and assembly is done with many proprietary techniques. This makes for very quick shift times, long clutch life, and higher HP capability than any stock transmission. Externally adjustable line pressure allows fine tuning of shift firmness.
We offer a complete series of upgrades which are priced (when buying a transmission) as follows (please call to upgrade when placing order):

245mm ZZP high performance torque converter $350
Stock flex plate for 245mm converter $40
Single chain gear set with 3.29 or 3.69 gears $450
VSS reluctor wheel for gear changes $50
ZZP input shaft 4340/300M $325/$400
ZZP output shaft (gun drilled or solid) $190
ZZP pump shaft $110
12 month Extended warranty $299"


This came off ZZP's page.


Then i would need to up grade the new engine? New Cam correct? What other upgrades? TB? Would i need new or upgraded fuel injectors?

Anything im missing?


Then order the turbo kit. And possibly an intercooler? what kinds of gains would i be looking at for adding one? Is it better for the set up(regardless of the power it adds)


As for the turbocharger itself, Is the one in the kit a good one? i have heard about ceramic coated turbines to help reduce stress and spool up time... are either of the turbos in the kit like that? or is that a huge price jump to get one. if its even necessary?



I also see some expensive wastgates on the zzp site? are they any better than the one in the kit? Its just a pressure release valve to prevent over spinning right? Does the "mm" size make a difference?



The kit doesn't say it comes with a Blow off valve. That is a necessary part of the kit isn't it?


Back to the "making it happen" process


After i order the kit, Then i would need to do the engine swap before i install the turbo kit? or install first?








Question area:


I have an aeroforce gauge, it hooks up via the ODB2 port. Will it be able to monitor the boost even though the car
originally didnT have that ability? i think i would want to add a designated boost gauge Though.



The kits have an optional manual boost controller. Is it like a **** or something you can use to change the psi of boost or is it a under the hood to change it thing?


I think i might want help doing the swap and install as it will be my first... I dont even know who or what kind of shop to look for to get said help... Any suggestions. I live in Tampa, FL lol.


AND I DONT MUCH WANT TO DRIVE TO ZZP IN MICHIGAN TO GET IT DONE!!!!!! LOL even though i think that would be the place to get it done...

 

For a turbo setup, I would go with a naturally aspirated 3800. You'd get higher compression which is preferable IMHO. The Aeroforce does measure boost.

 

Depends how bad of a time crunch you're in- if you need it ASAP- Morad, or ebay are pretty much your only choices, and you're going to get railed on price.

If you have some time to wait- search all the major 3800 boards- clubgp, 3800pro, the various other major forums for cars with 3800s, ebay, craigslists within driving distance.

Then also expand your search to include not only powertrains, but also separate pieces (ie getting a trans from one place and an engine and other parts from another)- also look for totaled cars, bargain days at local junkyards, or cheap whole cars from police auctions, repos, etc.

It took me months (probably half a year) to find my powertrain, I passed on probably 2 other deals to get the price and mileage where I wanted it- and still had to drive 11 hours to get it.


Depends on the engine you get. If you go with an L36 or L26 (NA 3800)- the base kit should get you around 300 crank hp / 240 whp- maybe a bit higher (should do high 13's). With an intercooler, you should be able to do 13's flat or high 12's (probably closer to 300 whp).

With an L67 or L32 they claim an upgraded intercooled kit to do 400 hp.

The bad thing is, there are too many variables here- will you start with an NA or SC 3800; will you go IC'd or not; which turbo will you go with? Those all change the game drastically.

Not really- you're going to be either blocking off the SC anyways, or selling the top end for an NA top end anyways. If you want a big boost setup- a bottom end with lower compression from an L67 or L32 would be better- but for a more mild setup, an L36 or L26 would be ok (compression is only 0.9 points higher)- and would save you a lot of money because they aren't anything special at junkyards.

The other nice thing about getting an L36 over an L67 would be that it probably gives you 20x the choices in selection- the L67's only came in a few GM FWD vehicles- and even of those, only the highest trim levels got the L67. The L36 was used in a lot more vehicles, and made up the bulk of the trim option levels- so there are tons and tons more out there.

Maybe not necessarily ZZP- but they are a good option; there are other reputable shops too that do 4t65's- but none down in FL that I know of. As for which upgrades with which turbo kit- you need to pick an engine first, then pick which turbo you'll go with, then decide if you can afford to intercool it- then we can tell you what mods you need (or call/email ZZP and ask them- they'd know better than anyone on here since it's their turbo kit and their trans build).

Other than the turbo kit, you don't "need" to upgrade anything on the new engine. The stock cam is fine (SC or NA, they're the same anyways)- stock TB is fine; you'll definitely need new injectors, but those will come with your turbo kit anyways. Obviously other mods would help make more power- but you're on such a tight budget anyways, you'll probably barely be able to afford the powertrain, turbo, and swap- much less adding all kinds of extras up front.

You'll get a lot more power with an intercooler, I'd imagine at least 40 whp depending on the setup just from adding the IC and upping the boost. Again, it depends on the rest of the parts.

Depends which kit you get- the base turbo is different with each kit. The only thing I've heard of that helps a lot with spool is a ball bearing center section; but that's a lot of money, and only available on the high end Stattama kit. Honestly, the base turbos are so small, that you're not really going to have to worry about spool time.

The base Z3 kit comes with a BW 56mm turbo good for 550 crank hp- and they offer a $500 extended tip option to raise max power potential up to almost 600 crank hp.

The Z7 kits all come with a 62-1 which has long been a popular 3800 option, and is proven good to an easy 650 crank hp.

The stattama kits are the ones that have all the turbo options from a T67 to a T76 BB- but a fully optioned stattama kit alone is over the price of your budget for your whole build.

The base Z3 kit has no option. The wastegate is used to control the speed of your turbo for 2 main reasons- 1 being that it allows exhaust gasses to completely bypass the turbo during normal driving and 2 that it controls the speed of the turbo by leaking some exhaust around the turbo to keep your boost levels where you want them. Only time you need a bigger wastegate is if your current one isn't able to keep your turbo from over boosting on your setup (ie it can't flow enough exhaust around the turbo to keep it from spooling higher than you want)- with the base kit and the smaller turbos, this isn't a problem.

Not necessarily, especially at lower boost levels. I'd imagine they do include one though- the Z7 kit doesn't list it, but there is an option to upgrade from the "standard BOV"- even though a BOV is not listed.

Swap first- get the engine running right, then worry about the turbo. They're not that hard to install- and you need to make sure the engine and trans run fine by themselves before you go adding more crap to it. You could also do the built trans up front, and wait until after the swap to buy the turbo kit to save money if you had to.

Depends which engine you get an L36 or L26 only come with a 1 bar MAP sensor (the thing your aeroforce reads) which means they can't read boost- not sure if the turbo kits come with a 2 bar or not. The L67 or L32 will allow you to read MAP pressure since they have a 2 bar MAP stock- but you are still limited to ~15 psi. Anything over that, and you'd need to switch to the GM 3 bar to read. Regardless, a boost gauge would be just as easy, and mechanical ones are cheap enough.

I'm not sure what kind of boost controller they have as an option- it could be as simple as a **** under the hood; or as nice as an inside the car electronic version- you'd have to call/email them.


Local grand prix forum? Honestly, if you have to take it to a shop, you're going to get raped- labor will likely eat more than half of your budget, if not more. IMO, if you can't do it yourself or with free/cheap helps from friends/relatives/local car guys- then I wouldn't even bother. Not only will a shop screw you on money (because they've never done the swap before either and don't want to get screwed out of hours of custom labor)- but you have no idea what kind of custom swap work they do. I really wouldn't count on anybody else though- I had a couple local car nuts, a few friends from work, and a few friends from home (about an hour away) all lined up to come and help with my swap. It ended up being just myself and my wife (then my girlfriend) for that cold week or so in a borrowed garage. I had a few people stop by to say hi- but had virtually 0 help, everyone bailed. Heck, I was even giving away my old 3100/4t60 and I couldn't find someone reliable enough to come take it away for free.

Basically, anybody who says they'll come help for free/cheap- don't count on them at all. While I'm on this topic- I hope this isn't your only car- you also need to be prepared for that what if's- what if the "new" engine you got is scrap; has spun bearings or is seized- or the built tranny won't budge due to a simple installer error- or you simply can't get the car to run due to electrical issues after the swap? You need to have something else to drive in case it sits there for awhile. I know at least 3 people that have sold their swap cars because they simply couldn't work out the bugs or get it running, and ran out of money with no backup car. I know its a simple- mostly plug and play deal; but we're still talking about fairly advanced mechanics here- its definitely no oil change.


I think I got all the questions...

 

Sorry for my absence. I moved and didn't have internet for a while.

After reviewing my budget, i just cant see myself putting in thousands and thousands of dollars into this car. I think i would be better off getting a S/C'ed 3800 and get around the 200 WHP mark.

And Possibly do some mild to moderate mods for a good 50 or 60 WHP more.

I think that would keep me satisfied, so i can save up some real money to drop into my old muscle car. its a 1970 Grand Prix it needs a lot of work.


Would i need to do a built trans to handle 250-275 Whp?

---
Random Question... I have a friend who knows a friend who totaled his SS, sadly the front end is GONE. he said he would sell me his SS gauge cluster for 40 bucks... Will it work on my LS wiring harness? Will all the gauges work?
---

So im still looking for a decently priced drive train. and trans.

Which model engine would be best for my to be mildly to moderately modded SC setup?
L67, L32, L36...?
the L32 created the most power b/c of the gen 5 SC and the lower compression in the bottom end right?

Thanks for your ongoing help and patience guys.

 

A stock transmission should be fine with under 300 WHP.

Are your gauge clusters different in appearance? Theoretically, it should be able to be swapped out - the interior harnesses should be the same.

L67 swap would be simplest, unless you plan to rebuild the top end before the swap. In that case, you might as well get an L36.

 

I agree, stock trans will be fine. It won't last forever; but you should be able to get near stock reliability. 250 whp is just barely over what a normal full 3.4" setup makes, so you're not really going to be pushing the engine that hard.

L36 will be more work because you'll have to buy all the SC top end parts to swap onto it. L32 will be a little more work because you'll have to convert throttle bodies, and switch the fuel rail out and such. L67 will be the easiest swap, and will be easier to locate than an L32. Sure you're going to start out down on power a little- but you could always just get the supercharger ported, and have the same effect as getting an L32 off the bat.

Not sure about the gauge cluster.

 

Gauge cluster WILL work, however not all the gauges will work.

But, you have to sign a disclaimer, get the mileage transferred over properly, and I don't believe the oil gauge will work.

 

Awesome. I'm keeping my eyes open for an L67 now.

Did all the L67 come with a SC?

Also does the Trans need to be from the same vehicle as the engine?

Do i need to replace the axle up front too? same donor vehicle?

Wiring harness for same vehicle too?



Gauge swap. Chibi, so the oil one wont work, is that because i don't have a 3.8 engine and harness and pcm yet? or will it just never work?