99 Lumina LTZ supercharger
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 565
ZZP has one of the highest dyno'ing 3800s in the world, and its running on a totally stock bottom end. There have also been a ton of high horsepower s/c cars running stock pistons with no issue.
I don't disagree that forged pistons are going to be more resistant to knock- but you're talking spending well over $1000 (between the pistons and engine rebuild) for a mod that doesn't make you any faster and makes the car less reliable (the failure rate on rebuilt 3800s is awfully high for whatever reason).
The only thing it really gains you is the ability to get sloppy with your tuning or modding- I say just watch what you're doing in the first place. Not to mention, you could buy 3 or 4 stock short blocks for the price of forged pistons, all the rebuild parts, and machine shop work.
To me, thats like saying you need to go buy a hardcore built transmission because sometimes you aren't careful and reverse drop it- and the built tranny handles that better; if you were careful and watched what you were doing in the first place, then it would be totally unnecessary, you know?
Don't get me wrong- I used to be all about the forged pistons- I even spent almost a grand on them, plus another grand for the machine shop work. All it gained me was a little extra noise when cold, a little extra power from the .1 extra compression over the L36 bottom end-definitely by far the worst mod I've ever done because it was totally pointless. I figured that by how easy the pistons chip when you get a ton of knock, that meant they were weak and that we were close to finding their max power limit- but people kept pushing them, and now they're doing nearly 1000 crank horsepower with them- so I was completely wrong, and I wish I'd have spent the money on all the expensive bottom end hardware, and such on other go-fast mods.
I don't disagree that forged pistons are going to be more resistant to knock- but you're talking spending well over $1000 (between the pistons and engine rebuild) for a mod that doesn't make you any faster and makes the car less reliable (the failure rate on rebuilt 3800s is awfully high for whatever reason).
The only thing it really gains you is the ability to get sloppy with your tuning or modding- I say just watch what you're doing in the first place. Not to mention, you could buy 3 or 4 stock short blocks for the price of forged pistons, all the rebuild parts, and machine shop work.
To me, thats like saying you need to go buy a hardcore built transmission because sometimes you aren't careful and reverse drop it- and the built tranny handles that better; if you were careful and watched what you were doing in the first place, then it would be totally unnecessary, you know?
Don't get me wrong- I used to be all about the forged pistons- I even spent almost a grand on them, plus another grand for the machine shop work. All it gained me was a little extra noise when cold, a little extra power from the .1 extra compression over the L36 bottom end-definitely by far the worst mod I've ever done because it was totally pointless. I figured that by how easy the pistons chip when you get a ton of knock, that meant they were weak and that we were close to finding their max power limit- but people kept pushing them, and now they're doing nearly 1000 crank horsepower with them- so I was completely wrong, and I wish I'd have spent the money on all the expensive bottom end hardware, and such on other go-fast mods.
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,452
"Vtech" heads- maybe he means "VTEC"? LOL
Had the pleasure of riding passenger in a 516 WHP turbo Regal (W-body, FWD- not "turbo Regal" as in Gbody from the 1980s) a few weeks ago- yes, it would BLAZE tire at ~70 MPH whenever peak boost came on. Very..."impressive" ride, to say the least.
I had a buddy with a GP GTP in college that was in that same hp ballpark with a stattama turbo kit; and even with DR's, he would still geat beat by DSM's and EVO's and such just because he'd lose so much time out of the hole.
just felt the need to point out that our pistons aren't "bulletproof", should some noob hit the thread looking for information and take away that he's got some wiggle-room tune wise (and then chunk a slug).
Did your fried let you drive the Regal at all?
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 565
It is pretty cool- but its unbelievable how useless that is for racing on the street. Its not such a big deal at the track, where you stick on the biggest, softest slicks you can find- but on street tires, its easy to get beat by much slower cars from a dig just because of the traction issues.
I had a buddy with a GP GTP in college that was in that same hp ballpark with a stattama turbo kit
; and even with DR's, he would still geat beat by DSM's and EVO's and such just because he'd lose so much time out of the hole.
I had a buddy with a GP GTP in college that was in that same hp ballpark with a stattama turbo kit
; and even with DR's, he would still geat beat by DSM's and EVO's and such just because he'd lose so much time out of the hole.
He offered to let me drive it, but I was afraid too. When it's not spinning it's torque steering like a lunatic- I really was afraid I'd take it off the road if I got into the throttle.
Thread Starter
|
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 9
wow you guys been busy while ive been gone lol..
well i bought a 2000 GTP from a wreaker with 90,000 KM on it.. got a deal i couldn't refuse lol.. now few things I had pointed out to me from co worker at the shop.. says GTP have higher pressure fuel pumps and have some sort of external resistor. that allows veriable fuel pressure.. when your cruising it stays at one pressure when you punch it, it bypasses the resistor and pumps at full pressure.
trying to collect information on the swap process..
can't swap tanks because they are different and I dont think the pump & sender will fit in my tank.
Or do you guys think this will be an issue?
well i bought a 2000 GTP from a wreaker with 90,000 KM on it.. got a deal i couldn't refuse lol.. now few things I had pointed out to me from co worker at the shop.. says GTP have higher pressure fuel pumps and have some sort of external resistor. that allows veriable fuel pressure.. when your cruising it stays at one pressure when you punch it, it bypasses the resistor and pumps at full pressure.
trying to collect information on the swap process..
can't swap tanks because they are different and I dont think the pump & sender will fit in my tank.
Or do you guys think this will be an issue?
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,452
I could've swore they got rid of the resistor in one of those years. ZZP said in 99 they "fixed the issue with fuel pump resistor"; not sure what that means though. Doesn't really matter to you- if you start modding and running out of fuel- then just drop a walbro in; they're only like $99.
Also- just out of curiousity, why did you buy a whole GP? Aren't you just doing a top swap; or is your current engine/trans totally shot? Because you could've bought just the topswap parts for a lot cheaper than a whole car- especially if you aren't planning on totally swapping powertrains.
Also- just out of curiousity, why did you buy a whole GP? Aren't you just doing a top swap; or is your current engine/trans totally shot? Because you could've bought just the topswap parts for a lot cheaper than a whole car- especially if you aren't planning on totally swapping powertrains.
Thread Starter
|
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 9
I could've swore they got rid of the resistor in one of those years. ZZP said in 99 they "fixed the issue with fuel pump resistor"; not sure what that means though. Doesn't really matter to you- if you start modding and running out of fuel- then just drop a walbro in; they're only like $99.
Also- just out of curiousity, why did you buy a whole GP? Aren't you just doing a top swap; or is your current engine/trans totally shot? Because you could've bought just the topswap parts for a lot cheaper than a whole car- especially if you aren't planning on totally swapping powertrains.
Also- just out of curiousity, why did you buy a whole GP? Aren't you just doing a top swap; or is your current engine/trans totally shot? Because you could've bought just the topswap parts for a lot cheaper than a whole car- especially if you aren't planning on totally swapping powertrains.
Thanks for the info! .. the car only actually cost me $300 with a old taurus and astro van to bring for scrap.friend of mine that owns the yard. was rear ended low km. and a friend of mine wants the motor when im done. i will probably end up selling him the motor for what i paid for the car. and ill keep the tranny for spare or sell it too. so it all works out.
Last edited by zmame; Sep 14, 2009 at 05:27 PM.
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 192
From: minnesota
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,452
i wouldn't mind adding a supercharger to my 03 ss. what is the difference between the Used Gen 5 M90 supercharger w/ intake and the Rebuilt stock m90 blower besides the price. and what else would i need to make everything come together, meaning other parts i would need. and how big of a difference would doing this make for the car, from stock right now to the finished master peace? thanks
As far as all the parts to do the swap- try searching for "top swap", and you should find it. Basically its everything from the heads on up off an L67 (or L32 if you want a Gen 5 + an L67 fuel rail and some aftermarket TB).
As far as how much power to look for- you've got ~200 crank hp right now- I'd figure a totally stock top swap should put you at 230-250 crank hp depending how much knock you get. Ideally, you'd either run a larger SC pulley if you couldn't afford other mods to cut the boost down (ie a 4.2" pulley) or you'd do some other supporting mods to help kill the knock.
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 192
From: minnesota
One is a Gen 5, the other is a Gen 3. The difference is, the Gen 5 is the newer version that flows similarly to aftermarket ported Gen 3's. So if you were considering spending $200+ on a ported supercharger soon anyways, you may as well opt for a gen 5 off the bat (if you can find one cheap enough to make it worthwhile).
As far as all the parts to do the swap- try searching for "top swap", and you should find it. Basically its everything from the heads on up off an L67 (or L32 if you want a Gen 5 + an L67 fuel rail and some aftermarket TB).
As far as how much power to look for- you've got ~200 crank hp right now- I'd figure a totally stock top swap should put you at 230-250 crank hp depending how much knock you get. Ideally, you'd either run a larger SC pulley if you couldn't afford other mods to cut the boost down (ie a 4.2" pulley) or you'd do some other supporting mods to help kill the knock.
As far as all the parts to do the swap- try searching for "top swap", and you should find it. Basically its everything from the heads on up off an L67 (or L32 if you want a Gen 5 + an L67 fuel rail and some aftermarket TB).
As far as how much power to look for- you've got ~200 crank hp right now- I'd figure a totally stock top swap should put you at 230-250 crank hp depending how much knock you get. Ideally, you'd either run a larger SC pulley if you couldn't afford other mods to cut the boost down (ie a 4.2" pulley) or you'd do some other supporting mods to help kill the knock.
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 565
Did you actually read this thread? LOL
All of your questions about parts, etc are answered in this thread or in links posted in it.
Regarding knock, do a Google search for "spark knock". Honestly, you would probably benefit from some reading regarding how internal combustion engines work before jumping into a "big" project like adding forced induction to your car.
We're here to help, but we can't help those who won't help themselves.
All of your questions about parts, etc are answered in this thread or in links posted in it.
Regarding knock, do a Google search for "spark knock". Honestly, you would probably benefit from some reading regarding how internal combustion engines work before jumping into a "big" project like adding forced induction to your car.
We're here to help, but we can't help those who won't help themselves.