Hey everyone, i'm recently torn between selling my dodge avenger ES and buying a GTP, or a monte carlo SS. I got some cash saved up however i got a few questions.

Personally i'm leaning more towards the Monte, however i got a few questions about the engine. To get a SS with the S/C 3.8L is quite expensive. So my questions are:

From 00-05 SS(non S/C) are the engines the same as a GTP excluding the supercharge?

If so would it be cheaper to buy a used EatonS/C and put it in the Monte?

 

If you buy a non s/c 3800, that would be an L36- the supercharged GTP engine is the L67.

It is nowhere near as easy as sticking on the supercharger between the two. Search for the phrase 'top swap' on here and on other forums like www.clubgp.com/forum (a big 3800 site).

Basically, you have to replace the heads on up, and the balancer and some other front end components. Its a fairly cheap job (under $1k), but its pretty labor intensive.

 

Hey, thanks alot man ill definatley search that up. Me and my uncle might be alright with the labour work, im assuming im gonna have to take the engine outta the bay to do the head work and up correct?

 

No, you can leave the engine in the bay, and most of the stuff hooked up (like PS, AC, etc).

If you want an idea of how much labor it will be- imagine doing a head gasket change, and add another hour or two to that (for having to swap out the balancer and a couple other front end pieces). Thats about as difficult as it is. If you're confident enough to pull off a head gasket swap- then this is really no harder. The only difference is, you're putting different parts back on, but since they're all stock parts, its all direct bolt on.

 

Ohhh i was assuming there wouldnt be enough room, alright kool.

Also another question, are all the non S/c Ss's from 00-05 L36's?

 

Too be frank, just go with the SuperCharged version. According to MSN Autos the price difference is $3000 more from the LS model and $1000 more from the SS non SC model.

Personally it is worth the upgrade. The 3400 in the LS has gasket issues and is underpowered in my opinion. You get a much better trim package and less headaches just going to the the 3800 SC. As for the SS version, it has the bullet proof 3800 NA engine, but still has the weaker version of the transmission found in the LS and you may experience problems down the road.

The 3800 SC has 40 more HP than the SS and 60 more than the LS. Has a stronger transmission than the others, more options and is just a more enjoyable vehicle.

Also if you ever decide to start modding and increasing the power you will like having that beefier transmission and there are more power options for the SC vs NA engines.

 

Hmm, what are the price ranges roughly for an SS S/C?

 

Id say theyre about 7k and up. Definetly get the S/C engine though. As 04 intimidator pointed out, the non s/c monte does have a weaker tranny (i would know lol) and the SC is also more ready to upgrade because it has better springs and more adjustable.

 

LS

SS

Supercharged SS

Kelley Blue Book Price $7,525 - $7,850 $9,475 - $9,925 $10,800 - $11,300 Original Retail Price (MSRP) $21,665 $24,070 $27,395 Original Invoice Price $19,823 $22,024 $25,066

Found at: http://autos.msn.com/research/vip/pr...arlo&trimid=-1

 

Did you specifically blow your differential? That is the only part strength wise that is really different between the two transmissions.


To the OP: since you're new to these cars, here are the real transmission differences:

The 3800 NA cars (L36)- come with the 4t65e, the 3800 SC cars (L67) come with the 4t65e-HD. They're both the same transmission with a few minor differences:

-the HD version has a stronger differential (which is not a common failure point anyways)
-the HD version has a worse final drive ratio of 2.93 vs 3.29 in the non-HD version (many people with the HD tranny upgrade to the 3.29 gears to have a faster car when they replace their drive chain)
-the HD version has a larger (heavier?) torque converter- pretty much all the 'upgrade' converters use the smaller size of the non-HD transmission

So the strength difference is really insignificant- there are a lot of people running top swaps and turbo L36's with non-HD transmissions. There are also a lot of broken HD trannys as well- so they're not invincible. If you do get an L36/4t65e, you can do the HD upgrade- you replace your differential, diff cover, and passenger axle (due to the different size cover)- its all easy and can be done through the passenger side wheel well. Complete kits run about $500 from a company sourcing the parts for you, but can be had much much cheaper online or at a junkyard.

What is more adjustable about a SC SS or GTP vs an NA SS or GT? Just curious...


As far as prices go- the difference is most apparent when you look at the starting year for each. I kept the mileage at 75k to keep wear and tear pretty consistent across the cars.

A 1998 (they started in 97, but you really want a 98+) Grand Prix GTP-L67/4t65hd w/ 75k in good shape is $3175 private party value in good shape on KBB.

A 2000 monte L36/4t65e w/ 75k in good shape is $4615 private party value in good shape on KBB.

A 2004 monte L67/4t65hd w/ 75k in good shape is $7860 private party in good shape on KBB.


So if you're dead set on a 6th gen monte- it would be a good bit cheaper to get an L36 model and top swap it than to buy an 04 L67 (they tend to be a lot harder to find too-and from what I've seen people tend to mark them up a good deal higher as well).

If you don't care which car, but want to go as fast as possible for cheap- a Grand Prix GTP is the way to go. You can usually get a SC GTP for cheaper or for the same price as an NA 00+ monte.

Just depends what your preference is.