Oh yeah and to comment on this, brand new plugs and wires, brand new fuel filter, brand new 02 sensor, brand new thermostat, ALL tensioner etc. pulleys replaced with new ones within past few months, new belt, just done, etc.

 

Definitely agree- as I've been in the same spot- it all goes back to scanning to know exactly how your car will react.

If you can't do 1.9 modded stock rockers, and refuse to learn, then either forget about modding the car- or be willing to shell out big bucks to have shops do any work for you.

Rockers really aren't that difficult, and there are plenty of guides out there about how to do them.


Same thing, if you're really that retarded that you can't manage to figure out how to undo 4 bolts, and unscrew the O2 sensor- you shouldn't do ANY mods to your car- a cold air intake will require you to take off 3 bolts just to get the support bar off, not to mention, a few electrical plugs and worm clamps- definitely more advanced than a DP install- not to even mention a brake pad job.

I also don't know where you're getting this "most people" and "99%" of people. Maybe in the real world- yeah, you're probably right- most people are too afraid or don't understand how to work on a modern car at all- that's what keeps shops in business. But for people on a car forum, I would imagine its the other way around- I'd bet "most people" on here could do a rocker install given they researched the basic instructions for how to do it.

Not to mention, you're saying a DP install is too hard for most people, then what the heck would you call pressing the SC pulley off, lol? IMO, that's far more time consuming, and less straight forward than bolting in a downpipe, or a PLOG, etc.

Not needed with 1.9 modded stock rockers with stock shift points, as long as your car isn't super high mileage and the springs are worn out.

Come on, its really not THAT bad. As I said above- if people are too afraid to try this kinda stuff and don't care to try to learn, then they should just stick to having shops do the work for them.

Only time I agree with this, is on a 5th gen monte- having to cut and pound out the firewall to make headers fit. I agree, that's WAY beyond what most people want to get into, and can easily be an all day job- but on any 2nd gen wbody, its really not that bad.

A 3.4 is hardcore performance? Really? Really? Really? lol

I'd be interested to see a dyno comparison of a single mod vs a single mod- IE headers vs a 3.6" or 1.9 rockers vs a 3.6". Even if both setups made identical WHP, I'd still rather take the one with less KR (since it opens you up to doing more later if you want).

You're missing my point. I'm saying if all you feel like doing right at this point is a single mod, do rockers, do headers, etc- not a pulley. That way, if you decide to continue modding- you haven't wasted money on something you're going to replace- you can just keep adding to the mods you already have.

4* of KR on a bone stock L67 does not mean it has maintenance issues- it is VERY common. Seriously, look on the various forums, get a scan tool and scan some local forum cars. I've scanned a lot of L67 cars with various mod lists- but I've only maybe seen 1 or 2 that had virtually 0 KR bone stock.

It is far more common for the L67 to have KR bone stock than not, and that does not by any means indicate its in "poor condition", come on...

As long as you keep a catalytic converter on the car, it will pass emissions- and IMO, a properly done 3.4" setup will be stock reliable. Too much more, and you're starting to push the limits of the trans, but I wouldn't think anything about daily driving a 3.4" setup (heck, I did for the 30k miles when I had my GTP)- its not that wild.

You don't live within an hour or so of any decently sized city? Locally, aren't there any car clubs that have people that mod modern cars?

I mean if you live out in the middle of nowhere, I guess you don't have much choice- maybe you can pick up a used Aeroforce for a decent price off clubgp or something?

If you want to do it properly, you need the extras- there is NO question. Post a thread "can I safely run a 3.4" with my mod list" on clubgp (the biggest 3800 forum) or on 3800pro and see if anybody says its ok (other than sarcasm on clubgp obviously).

How did the pulley get so damaged? Which puller did you use? I own the ZZP puller, and have never had a problem with it damaging a pulley.

You know, instead of removing the 3.4", you could've just unplugged the BBV solenoid to limit boost until you can properly mod the car or scan it. Would've saved a lot of time and effort at least. Heck, you could be one of the lucky ones and only had a couple degrees of KR (although unlikely)- that's what I mean about the scanning being so important, there is so much variance from one car to the next, that you can't accurately predict it- unless you just throw enough mods at it to kill most of the knock on any car (ie rockers, headers, canned tune for a 3.4" setup).

Quit using octane booster- its wasting your valuable mod money.

 

Go Bumpin!!

 

I still disagree. I think Bumpin's years of gearheadedness have jaded his view quite a bit.

 

I suppose you could call it a jaded view; I've just seen way too many people battle KR constantly with their L67's (and seen multiple cars with chipped pistons) to think that more boost is better on a relatively stock setup. Its not like I'm from a particularly knock prone area either- Indiana was relatively low elevation, is pretty flat, had relatively mild temperatures most of the year, and had 93 octane available everywhere.


I don't want people to think that I'm saying you're totally wrong; there definitely are some L67's that have little to no KR from the factory- and for those cars, I do definitely agree that a 3.6" would probably make good power for less money (although I'd find out what's wrong with the puller first so it doesn't keep destroying pulleys). However, the flip side is all the other L67's that do have a good bit of KR- and for them, adding more boost off the bat isn't the answer, and they would be better off with another mod first (say headers, or rockers).

The problem with this situation, is she seems very sure that no one within any reasonable driving distance owns a scan tool or will ride along to scan for any reasonable price; so personally I'd rather assume you're in the bulk of people who have a decent amount of KR stock- rather than assume you're one of the lucky few who is relatively KR free- and do a mod that will eliminate KR and add power; rather than a mod that will add KR and maybe add power.

 

The puller sucked. It is a "new improved design" from 3800 performance. Instead of the C shape, it is a long thick aluminum block, and it bent from the stress of taking the pulley off. It is garbage now, also those studs kept breaking, they included 3. I emailed them asking if they sent me the right one since it didn't look like the one on their site, that's when the guy said it was the improved model. Are they all aluminum or just this one? I thought they were supposed to be steel. Anyway, I will see if it is still in the garage, if so, I will take a pic of it. I am on the lookout for a used scanner/programmer now, I heard a few of the ones that were recommended to me before are no longer made. So maybe an aeroforce gauge?

 

That sucks to hear, I've never tried theirs before. This is the one I have:

http://www.zzperformance.com/grand_p...=199&catid=111



On that one, the two big plates are aluminum (the one on the left is split down the middle so you can put it behind the pulley)- but it does a nice job of not bending pulleys like the C shape ones can.


Are you looking for a scanner/programmer- like you want to make your own adjustments and stuff to the pcm? If so, there are only two real options for the 3800- the DHP Powrtuner (which used to be $400, but is now discontinued- they now sell used for about $200) and HPTuners (which can also be used to tune a bunch of other cars outside of the 3800 market- runs $500 or 650 new depending which model you get, and about $400 used, depending how many 'credits' are left). Obviously you'd need a laptop with either- but if you're cool with learning how to use it- its definitely worth the money for HP and MPG gains.

As for the aerforce gauge goes- brand new, they run almost as much as a used powrtuner and you can't make any pcm changes with them- so if you have a laptop, and a desire to learn- a Powrtuner would be a better option.

I will admit though, that pcm tuning can be tough to learn- hence why so many people just get an aeroforce gauge and buy a pre-tuned pcm from a vendor.

I did see a guy on clubgp today selling a pair of aeroforce gauges for $250- one was practically NIB. Maybe you could talk him into selling one for $125?

 

The ZZP puller that Bumpin posted a picture of is what I have also. It works really well (if you keep the directions around- can be disorienting without the directions). I've swapped pulleys alone in ~30 minutes with it.

ZZP rents them, too, for $35 if I remember correctly.

 

Here is what is left of the one I got. I don't think the bevel was big enough. both pulleys and cone got damage. I had 2 very strong guys here trying to pull the damn pulley off together. Was very stubborn and took a while...

 

Isn't 3800performance ran by Intense?

I recommend an Aeroforce. While a real tuner would be ideal, with the AF you get to see the KR as it comes up, without a damn laptop beside you.