So, thought this might be an interesting discussion topic to see what people think. A friend of mine and I were recently texting about this.....
All vendors have performance cars people desire. Today, for GM, the current production performance cars are the Corvette and Camaro. But you have the "under dog". And what I mean by that is the cars that may not have the WOW of a crazy fast RWD v8, but gain a niche following and people mod them (I am talking well beyond wheels and stereos, just going crazy to customize, hoods, spoilers, drive train mods, just a huge list of things to personalize them). Some of the cars that come to mind, Neon, Stealth, Focus, Probe.... and since I am focusing this on GM, how about the Chevy Cavalier, the Chevy Cobalt, Beretta, Grand Am, Grand Prix, Monte, Impala, and a host of other cars.

The era I am curious if GM ended is the era of the FWD enthusiasts. I feel it took a while for the concept of modding a FWD car to catch on. I feel it really flourished from the mid-90's to the mid-2000's for GM. So many nice cars and great designs and people enjoyed them. You had small pockets of people forming groups and messing around with these cars. Not sure I am missing something in the GM line up, but I feel when the Monte Carlo line ended in 2007, that was a negative mile stone. And after Pontiac was shut down, I feel it really closed the book on this era. Sure post-Pontiac GM cars are "nice", but I feel they lack the designs and interest that GM enthusiasts used to have. I don't hear too many stories of people doing much with them beyond wheels and stereos. Not sure any after market communities are making performance parts for any of them.

What does everyone else feel? No right or wrong, no arguments, just curious what the thoughts are of everyone out there. And if there are some post-Pontiac GM cars out there that have people messing with them, feel free to post up some pics!

 

I think its a neat topic to explore!

I think there are 2 big things at play:
1. It feels to me like the crazy modding you're talking about has died down across the board. Outside of major show cars for SEMA and such, I don't seem to see as many heavily modded cars as I used to maybe 10 or so years ago. I think part of this is a generational thing as modding cars that much - especially FWD cars in the US was a Fast and the Furious generation thing (that being F&F 1 / 2 / 3 not #65 - going to Mars F&F).

The people from that generation seem to have either A) grown out of cars in general- had a family, bought a house, and got bogged down in the daily grind of adult life or B) if they did stay heavily into cars, they have moved on to better jobs and can now afford to be modding the higher performance stuff.

I really don't think the younger kids getting into driving now (say those 16-20 now) are spending anywhere near as much time and money modding cars as those a decade+ older. I personally know a handful of kids in that age bracket that don't have / aren't in a rush to even get a license.

No offense to other members that age, but I also don't get the feel that kids are nearly as hands on these days either. Seems like they more enjoy playing on their phones than actually doing stuff. Don't get me wrong- I spent plenty of time on video games as a kid, but I was also out there almost every week helping my Dad do house & car maintenance, etc - doing brakes / oil, building stuff for home improvement projects and so on.

2. Chevy / GM in general have really pulled out of that sport compact market. Their interest clearly lays in making trucks and SUVs as they continue to shrink their car offerings more and more. Chevy really has nothing even remotely sporty in its offerings if you exclude the Camaro / Vette as its clear thats where all their performance interests lay.

I've driven plenty of their current lineup of cars as rentals on various trips and IMO there's definitely no soul / performance interest there at all. Its just a basic commuter with barely adequate power and a focus on MPG.


As for post Pontiac GM cars with a mod culture outside of the Camaro / vette, I can only think of 3:
-CTSV, especially the 2nd gen (also as they age / prices fall)
-Caprice, which is kind of an oddball all around
-SS, another kind of oddball with a price tag that keeps most 1st time drivers out

I do really think Cadillac has some really nice & sporty cars that could develop a following, but the new price tags are absolutely nuts. Way outside of most any new driver and high enough that even people who can afford to mod them (outside of shop demo cars) aren't stripping them down for heavy mods.

 

Occam's Razor - the gov't got involved. Long ago. Gone are the days of Harley Earl and Bill Mitchell, where they made changes every year so you would think your car was out of date and buy a new one. Planned obsolescence. In 1969, you could buy a car that didn't get 10 MPG - then the 'gas crisis' or 'oil embargo' whichever sounds better. Smaller cars followed, as did boring cars. Then the gov't got involved and mandated that cars last 100,000 miles. People stopped trying to preserve their cars, they were just 'point A to point B' transportation. Automakers stopped telling you how much HP the car had, but about it's wifi capabilities. It became a portable room of the house. Now they want to switch everything to electric, virtually overnight. Chrysler Corp. will only make electric vehicles after 2028. F*** is only going to make trucks, SUV's and the Mustang very soon. GM still has some sedans, but is overrun by SUV's and trucks. And the Corvette - and for now the Camaro.
I was elected to borough council of the small berg I live in last year, and at our first meeting we had a visitor in the form of our state representative. He kept us abreast of what our Governor is trying to do to us. We have the highest gas tax in the nation, which is to go to fixing roads and bridges. That money was taken to pay the state police, since they took their budgeted money and put in the general fund to waste. To make up for the shortfall, he wants to put an 8.1 cent tax per mile driven on all vehicles, assuming the non-electric ones. He wants to practically double the cost of vehicle registration, in an attempt to push people into mass transit. They are trying to tax cars into oblivion in the next 8 years. It's no surprise that parts suppliers are folding up the tents. In the words of the late Shel Silverstein - "Beware of bein' the roller when there's nothin' left to roll."

 

Interesting perspective about younger generations. I honestly did not give thought to that. And I have heard how a lot of kids today lack an interest in a driver's license. I know someone who bought a car for their kid only to sell the car two years later and the kid NEVER touched it and never got his license. I remember for years getting a driver's license was such as "right of passage" and now it is falling by the way side.
Even in the world of the EV, I am sure people can still get creative with EVs and push mods and new ideas. But people have to want to do these things.

It just strikes me as a weird situation. My current daily driver is a 2004 Grand Am. When I finally retire this car (which given changes where I now work from home), I have no idea what I want. I have had people tell me to seek southern rust free N and W bodies from the 2000-2005 era, but I admit, when this little Grand Am is ready to retire, I want to look into something newer. My problem is, nothing is attracting my eye like it used to, especially from the GM line up. It's a bit of an odd feeling.

 

In the words of the late Shel Silverstein - "Beware of bein' the roller when there's nothin' left to roll."[/QUOTE]


Now this is great dry humor, love it.

 

The other downside is that in parallel with the rise of electric is the rise of automation. Auto park, auto emergency braking, auto lane keep, auto high beams, auto cruise distance, and even full on automation. I think this is a sign of the times that there is a growing population out there that is completely happy being less and less connected to the driving experience. Theres nothing inherently wrong with that, but it sure doesn't drive passion for your vehicle, it pushes the experience more to an appliance. No one modifies or treasures their toaster.

I completely understand what you mean. Ive got 75k on my GTO right now. When its dead, I'd certainly prefer new or near new for my next DD from a reliability/ peace of mind perspective and for the better modern tech. But as with you theres not much that really interests me with GM today.

Right now, a Camaro is probably the closest option but I really don't see the Camaro lasting another year or two with sales sliding like they are. I also don't like the much smaller back seat (and visibility) vs the GTO and I really prefer a 4 seat coupe.

 

I am not spoiled enough in my driving experience lol. But these are great observations I never considered. If you are getting to a point where your car has literally evolved into "johnny cab" from Total Recall, then you are going to care more about the "creature comforts" (like the seats and in car entertainment) for the sheer fact you are a passenger, not really a driver. I honestly never thought about that!

As far as my next car, when I first got the black Monte (formally Mike's 2000 Monte), my dad suggested with it being in such great shape, I hold on to it and turn it to a daily driver when my Grand Am finally dies. I love the Montes, but I have too many problems with that idea. One, I don't want the same car both for summer and daily driving. Second, since my job has changed to work from home, the miles are way less on the grand am, I have a weird feeling that little car is going to live longer than I ever planned (it has 190K now, the black Monte is over 200K). By the time the Grand Am is ready to be retired, I want a newer era car. But it really is a challenge. I could consider a 2006+ Impala (but again, how old will the last of that gen be when I want a new-to-me car).... There are a couple of Buicks that look like they could be alright.... I'll have to just take a good look at the time I want to make that leap.

 

It's a shame that they already discontinued the TourX. As you have seen, it really is a great package of a car. We'll have to see where the market is when it is time for you to get a new car, maybe we will see a slight reversal of a few trends and there will be some cheaper sedans again?

 

I completely agree with that. Ive been very close to pulling the trigger a few times on a 5th gen for a DD since they were so absurdly cheap, but I also can't bring myself to do a matching DD and toy. Id also be way too tempted to mod it as the mods are one of the main reasons I enjoy driving my play toy monte so much.

I'm in that same boat as I imagine many people are these days. Im on WFH until the barrage of covid spikes subside (which so far has been pushed back 4 or 5 times). Even when I go back, the plan is 50% of hours worked in office which I'd bias the hours to only have to drive in 2 days a week.

Its going to take a very long time for the GTO to wear out at that rate, especially since I do like to occasionally mix it up and drive a toy to work. TBH the only reason I keep an eye out on the market at all is from my GP accident. Id expected to have driven that car for many years to come before I got hit by the semi and it suddenly was lost.

 

The TourX is without a doubt a sweet ride. And honestly, part of that fading era. I do hope that some impressive coupes and sedans re-enter the GM lineup.