Can anyone tell me if bleeding the system when coolant is added to the radiator is as imortant as the owner's manual says? I think it is, and I feel that is part of the problem, and I certainly hope I haven't truly blown a head gasket because of this. My shop installed a new readiator and refused to bleed the system, saying they had a machine that sucked all of the air out of the system. I tried to buy that. I've had trouble with it ever since, I've politiely begged them to bleed it and offered to pay, but I keep hearing "The air would have bubbled to the surface by now, but your idea is a good one, it's just too late, that should have been part of the original fill process, and it wasn't.'"

When they found no immediate leaks on Monday they said it must be a head gasket. I don't have white exhaust or milky oil. I was told to keep cardboard under it, think posiitive, and find them a leak. It's coming from the radiator, driver's side, or just behind it. I think it's important because of my experience with an MR2. Air locks aren't cool, hopefully this is just a defective radiator and not a blown head. Puddle forms under the radciator driver's side. Yes, I realize you all can't tell me how to tell my shop what to do. I'm only asking for opinions, because I need to know if I'm crazy or not.

 

I'm not trying to be rude but this is probably not going to get much response because it's way to long and is too confusing. The arrows on the radiator cap don't need to be facing a certain way the cap will fit without any issues either way. You do not need to bleed the system every time you open the cooling system up to check the fluid. As I recall you were adding coolant a while before you got the radiator fixed . Could that cause a possible head gasket leak ? I apologize if I'm wrong and was thinking of another person's post. The wheel bearing contains the ABS sensor you can't fix separately. Also need to check wiring to the sensor. Having someone tell you something so you can go to a shop and explain to them how to fix your car probably is making the issue worse. Once again I'm not trying to be rude , I wish there was a quick solution to your question. Good luck

 

I'm not offended at all. The cap only mattered because I don' thave a firm enough grip to get it off when the arrow isn't lined up for some stuipd reason. They assured me its fine either way and I believe them, just as I believe you. The wheel bearign thing is entirely separate and will be pusued at a later date when I can afford it. Why I included it is beyond me, I think I was leading up to why I had a scheduled daignostic, which I'd kindly asked the use to check out the new radiator and its installation.
I often include far too many details. It's annoying and I'm embarrasssed and seriously, I"m getting help with that from a PhD. I'm a lunatic.

Honestly I feel that bleeding the system is essential any time coolant is added directly to the radiator, adn though I never have done so, they have...for sure when they filled it after installation. I think I wanted to clarify that I was graterul to build rapport by making the pmts on the bearing, too. Honestly, my quieston should have simply been "Can anyone tell me if bleedign the ssytem is as imortant as the owner's manual says? I think it is, and I feel that is part of the problem, and I certainly hope I haven't truly blown a head gasket because of this." I have never added coolant directly to the radiator, not once. I only asked the guy if I should open the radiator because it looked like more coolant was on teh ground than had been in the reservoir...and I'm determined to follow their specific instructions. I thanked him profusely for that.

 

Oh, yeah, they are gonna check the wiring to the sensor for the ABS when I can afford it, I can't spend money on diagnositics untl I finish paying off the installation of the the RR wheel bearing and assembly. It's not a mandatory issue. My cooling system is. I'm just going ot have faith they'll make it right, I hope it's a defective radiator, a thermostat stuck open, a connection leaking.., something like that. Fingers crossed. If it's a defective radiator I'm sure they'll make it right, and at that point I really feel that bleeding the system is essential. I hope I'm not completely off my rocker.

 

Bleeding a system is required after something like that - R&R the radiator.

With that said, vacuum bleeders are a thing. The 3800 is easy to manually bleed, but there are some cars that dont have a factory bleed location and require the use of a vacuum bleeder.

So it is a legitimate tool, but I'm not sure why they'd flat out refuse to do it normally. If nothing else to literally just crack the bleeder open for a second to prove to you that there is no trapped air.

It's time to find a new shop. Between the previous issue and the comment 'find them a leak' - what is that? That's their job...

 

Well if you got a new Radiator it shouldn't be defective.
The leaks can be in the Hoses, maybe the clamps are not secure on the hoses.
I would probably have bled the system after the radiator replacement.
At that time I would have put on brand new hoses, and a thermostat also.
the Radiator cap needs to be secure on the Radiator if not it will leak coolant out and overheat. Most of the time they don't get put on correctly and that causes the issue. I recently had an issue with one of the SUV's I own has the 3400 motor in it and it kept overheating. I did everything up to the head gaskets over a few years at the end of the ordeal I had to replace the head gaskets.
Upper and lower intake gaskets helped some, Radiator flush, Sensors helped some, Thermostat helped some. Finally did a pressure check on the system and that revealed the issue took 3 garages to get to the bottom of the issue.
Now it all works good, I can't get to the radiator or this one because the system is sealed at the overflow tank.
You should be able to take the Radiator Cap off when it is cold and then start the Car up and watch the coolant flow when the Thermostat engages. don't do anything when it is hot or you will get BURNT by hot exploding coolant.
I have a photo of the new headgasket work someplace and when I find it it will post it for you. Headgasket job was $1800.00

 

In my OP I had talked about the times I'd brought it back because they put the radiator cap on wrong. The arrow is supposed to line up. Each time they told me that it was fine the other way, and I shouldn't consider it an issue. I explained that I can't get it off when they put it on "upside down" as they put it. They said it just meant I didn't have a good enough grip. I took all of that and a bunch of other stuff out of my OP because it truly was too long and confusing like Jeff said. I'd mentioned the times this was done because one of them, in particular, showed made me fear they'd added coolant directly to the radiator. It was the day after the installation when I borought it back as I'd lost coolant. I was told "The coolant had just found its way to the rest of the places in the engine." When I got it home and popped the hood, my reservoir was reading at more than twice above the "hot" line and my radiator cap was on upside down. I didn't try to remove it, I knew from past experience that I didn't have teh grip to do so. They'd insisted that Arrow needn't line up, and I meekly accepted that. Interestingly enough, it stopped leaking for a bit once he'd put it on correctly.

Monday when he pressurized the system, put in on the rack, saw no immediate leaks, lowered it, started it up and revved it, then shut it off and raised it again, he shined a flashlight around, saw no immediate leaks and told me it was a head gasket. I said I didn't have white exhaust and it was still drivable. He said it hadn't progressed that far. Gave me cardboard, told me to "think positive and find him a leak". I got home and it was upside down so I brought it back up, I had a meeting anway, and he went out and fliipped without letting it cool all the way. He told me there'd be signs of that on the cardboard. (I'd said that just after I got it home I hd drips by the reservoir, and he said that was just from pressurizing the system.) He asked why I wanted teh cap on correctly if I'm adding to the reservoir, and I said I'd hoped one cold morning to look and see if there was a milky substance on it. He said that milky substance would show in my oil...it hasn't. He said with a blown head gasket all the coolant goes into the cylnders and out the tailpipes. I was to keep the cardboard under the radiator and surrounding area, not behind the tailpipes.

I drove to the meeting and then the 8 miles home. I didn't put that cardboard under, gave it time for the coolant he said was lost when he replaced the cap to dissipate. Tuesday I drove it simply 1.3 miles and back, and put the cardboard under it. By Wednesday morning there was so much coolant it had puddled adn pooled where it couldn't soak into the cardboard quickly enough. I called, he said that was just from him turning the cap around despite the time factor and places Id driven. He assured me that while bleeding it was a good idea, it was too late now..all trapped air would have bubbled to the surfacce. (ugh, it doesn't with an MR@ and it doesn't according to my owner's manual!) On that Wednesay I drove it 30 miles round trip, had to add coolant in town. I didn't put cardboard under it. I didn't drive it at all on Thanksgiving.

Yesterday afternoon I called and explained the huge spot that had soaked into the ground. That time I got the other brother, the one that sold me the car. I wanted to follow correct prcedure. I'd been able to add to just below the cold line, I feared more may have been gone from the radiator itself, but I needed his advice on whether or not to open it.....because I know that anytime coolant is added directly to the radiator it has to be bled. He said not to open it and that I was safe to drive it up today, there'd only be two guys there, to aske them if they had time to "check a level" for me. I reminded him his brother had seen no immediate leaks and told me it was a head gasket, and he said that if I was still getting wet spots they needed to check it again.

I"ve no clue which two guys, or why I wasn't given an appt...I've got a cardboard with a bunch more coolant today. I guess I just add to the reservoir, cross my ingers and drive it up. Maybe I should have it towed? This is the shop that installed the radiator, their estimate to solve the leaking problem. Another thing I'd deleted was that once I had the cap on correctly after the first time he filled it too high, it leveled at at the correct line in the reservoir and I didn't have to add for a coule days and I stopped obsessively checking it, until I noticed my temp gauge wasn't coming up like it should and since I know they can misread if coolant is low I checked. I had driven 25 miles with it barely starting to read. I waited two hours to check it, there was maybe an eighth of an inch across the bottom so I added to the cool line and my gauge started working again.

What's freaking me out is that they installed the radiator and I asked on Monday if they'd check their installation and bleed it if necessary since I continuted to lose coolant. Today I don't know if I just add more and chance it, call and get an appt, ...I just don't know because honestly it's coming out of the driver's side, just under and toward the back of the radiator, far right. That's exactly where it was coming out before they replaced it. That was why I'd wanted him to check hoses and clamps and the rest and like I said, he saw nothging and told me head gasket. Of course "think positve and find me a leak" was a great way to get rid of the stupid woman, it worked. I've found one by golly and I sure wish I knew to whom to show it and when. There is one, and only one guy there , he'd their go to guy on repairs and he said that the failure to read and continuing leaking could very well be from it not being bled. I havn't had the opporttunity to speak to him since, he is unavailavle when I call and he's been out on twos when I'm there or he just left or lunch...I've gotten it into the handss of the owners and as much as I'd liek to go to a new shop, this one is the one that did the estiate and the work and this one is the one that would need to make that right. It could easily be a clamp or a hose, I question the thermostat, too....maybe it sticks...open in this case. I still have heat, they asked me that. Their view is it's a sending unit causing he temp to read low and entirely separated from this.

These guys are especially religious, most are Mennonite, so I completely understand them not taking me seriously, I try to be as meek and humble as possible, but I'm starting to get frustrated. The one guy that isn't Mennonite and is their main shop guy and is also who told me a failure to bleed could cause this issue is the one guy I can't talk to again. I"m sure I'm sut coming off as the "stupid woman" I've heard of others who weren't taken seriously until they had a an by their side...I dont have one of those so I'm handling it as politely and meekly as I can.

 

My issue is that they did the estimate and replaced the radiator, so if it' a bad radiaor, a bad installation job or even something simple as a hose, maybe even the thermostat...it is my hope they will make it right. Their work is guaranteed for like 90 days. I'm glad to know that vacuum bleeders are a thing, I'll stop obsesing over them telling that was the case and refusing to use the bleeder and follow the specific filling procedure. I don't understand why they won't at least crack it to show me there is no air in the system, eiter. I jsut don't have the money to take it elsewhere in order to have their work repaired, so I"m thinking I need to remain polite and meek..these guys dont really take women seriously and I understand. I'm having faith that they'll make it right, or at least diagnose what is still wrong without charging me for the diagnostic. They didn't charge to pressureize the system and look last Monday, they just didn't catch the slow drip that becomes a big puddle, declared head gasket, told me to think positive and find them a leak...and boy have I found one. Somthing's not right, and it's not my place to diagnose it, it's my place to follow their insructions until they can find it. It's sure leaking faster now thatn it was before...I'm going through a lot of dexcool.

 

I get you're trying to, but the way you describe it, this shop is garbage. You'll be lucky to get anything. I just cant imagine showing even more kindness is going to magically change their mind. Not that I reccomend getting angry either. I'd just cut my losses and go to a real shop.

Ive got 2 thoughts:

1. If you're dead set on proving a leak, you need to get a UV dye kit. They're cheap and will 100% prove a leak that occurred after the dye was put in (and will show the exact spot). Otherwise you'll go round and round forever about where drops of coolant are coming from.

2. If you're losing a much coolant as you say, I'm a bit surprised that it wouldn't show something on a pressure test and also that it isnt blatantly obvious while running. Are you sure the engine isnt drinking it? Head gasket is pretty unlikely but LIM gaskets are very common on 3800s.

 

Here is a vid I found on Youtube that describes the Radiator replacement and the bleeding of it. it's on a 2000 Monte but they should be very similar.