My only issue with the ethanol additive is that we're growing food, (corn) then refining it into a fuel additive while around the world, people are starving. Just doesn't seen sustainable or justifiable to try and pacify our need for fuel through the use of government subsidized corn crops.

But , if we do decide that this program is necessary to sustain the farming industry, and ethanol truely is "alcohol that you can ingest (moonshine)", then sell it as such, and let me decide whether to add it to my tank or drink it.

Lol, so we can convert all cars in the U.S. to pure ethanol injection and forget the use of fossil fuels.
TAKE THAT HADJI!
(Sorry, that was a bit of my brother coming out in me)

We could do that and help farmers out, have much more land used for farming.

My main question is ( and im not looking for an argument with zipper, he obviously knows WAY more than me about it) if it is indeed so awesome, then why isn't it law that all gas stations serve it. It seems it would help our own economy more than anything else.

This is a reasonable question and I think it leads to this: Whenever people see a new fuel (or an updated one) is introduced to the market, they look at it as the fuel to replace gasoline. However, when it comes to E85, that was never the intention of it in the first place. It has always been known that the amount of ethanol that can be produced in the US would never meet the demand from consumers. The point of ethanol is to reduce our need of foreign oil, but not replace it. We still have a long ways to go before we can do that, but it is a start.

In the US, we have what we call a free market, a market that not only loves competition, but demands it. When it comes to fuel however, what are your choices? Gasoline and diesel, both of which are produced from crude oil. That's what we call a monopoly, and that is why gasoline and diesel prices can swing so wildly. But if we were to introduce other fuels into society, not to replace them, but to compete with them then there are options for consumers.

In my opinion, gasoline should never be replaced entirely as a fuel. There is a time and a place for it. Does it pollute? Yes it does, but let's face it, even camp fires pollute. My idea of a future US fuel economy is one of choices where we see people being able to buy vehicles that run on gasoline, diesel, electricity, CNG, LPG, ethanol (E85), compressed air, water, or even hydrogen. There are a number of options out there, and if we are exposed to them, we can keep fuel prices in check. In my opinion though, electric vehicles is the next natural step in our economy.

JaxJim:

Quote:

---

My only issue with the ethanol additive is that we're growing food, (corn) then refining it into a fuel additive while around the world, people are starving. Just doesn't seen sustainable or justifiable to try and pacify our need for fuel through the use of government subsidized corn crops.

---

This is also a reasonable point to make about ethanol, and now that I think about it, I agree with you there too. In fact most people don't know it, but this is the type of ethanol that Al Gore ended up changing his mind about. He did not say that all ethanol was bad, but corn based ethanol is something that he doesn't agree with anymore. Let me say this first though, I'm not an Al Gore fan. In my opinion politicians are basically cheerleaders these days, and Gore proved that by being hypocritical about electric consumption in homes. However, these days we are finding all sorts of ways to produce ethanol from other things besides food, such as algae.

Quote:

---

But , if we do decide that this program is necessary to sustain the farming industry, and ethanol truly is "alcohol that you can ingest (moonshine)", then sell it as such, and let me decide whether to add it to my tank or drink it.

---

Two things that I want to bring up here. First is gasoline engines are designed to run on gasoline, and that is why E85 is named just that. E85 is 85% ethanol and 15% gasoline. Gasoline is still used here in order to save some fuel mileage, and also to discourage people from drinking it. Next, ethanol really is alcohol or moonshine. In fact, it's typically 180-200 proof when produced for E85. So you can drink it, but I would advise against it.

Is there anyway that I can inexpensively "reverse - engineer" my E85 gasoline? That is, can I for $3.10 per gallon, buy some Shell gasoline, and separate the ethanol from the gasoline? That would leave me with almost a full gallon of gasoline and enough moonshine (19.2 oz @ 15%) to keep me happy for several days.

How much could the govt sell a gallon of moonshine for? Now I'm just rambling ........ but the U.S. could be out of debt in no time if the govt would sell moonshine and legalize marijuana. The downside is that our country will be far less productive than it is now.

There is a way to seperate them called "fractional distillation". If you have a lab setup like a Bunsen burner, flask, and condenser you can heat up the fuel to the boiling point of gasoline and that will seperate the two fuels. Typically gasoline has a low boiling point, but sometimes the boiling point can change. Gasoline will boil anywhere from 100*F-400*F. Ethanol on the other hand will boil at around 175*F.

Lol... bood job zipper, now you have just sparked the interest of the drunken team of the forum.

IMHO this sounds like environmentallists are going to be up in arms about this. On one hand, ethanol burns cleaner and reduces emmissions, on the other hand, it also reduces fuel mileage meaning more gas used (to an extent) lol

A friend of mine is a car enthusiast and a environmentalist, he told me that cats are what puts him up in arms, cleaner for enviroment, but uses more gas and robs horsepower.lol