Hey everyone,

A few months ago I went to Meineke (live and learn...) to get some work done, including motor mounts, oil pan gasket, fixing various other leaks, the valve thingy that goes into the side of the engine (3.9), and to figure out and fix what was causing my surging issue. I had already replaced my throttle body and sensor, which helped with some of it.

I had to go back to have them put the air control valve in because it took a while to ship. They tried to charge me nearly $800 for it when most are less than $200 on line, but I talked them down to $300. I was still getting ripped off, but I live in a place where I can't do this sort of work so my ***** were against the wall, so to speak.

When I picked up my car after financing a nearly $3000 bill for everything they supposedly did, not only did my surging issue remain, but I noticed a loud whining coming from the engine that wasn't there before. I asked as I began to drive off what it was, but didn't get an answer. I figured they had taken the belt off and it had to settle back in, or something like that. So I figured it would eventually go away and drove off... but it never did. I learned to ignore it for the most part. I contacted them in regard to my continuing surging issue, which they blamed on the less-than-a-year old throttle body that I had put in and tried to charge me another $800 to replace. I went ahead and replaced it again myself, with no difference. So I apparently replaced a good throttle body. I have yet to hear back from their corporate office.

Fast forward to a few days ago when I began feeling "resistance" in my steering wheel. I hastily checked it on my way to work and saw that it was low. So I dug around for my nearly empty bottle of PS fluid and topped it off. I was still feeling that strange resistance in the wheel, so today I decided to check it again. Looking down into the reservoir, it appeared to be dark, thick, and foamy. I grabbed a baster and an old water bottle and began to draw the fluid out... .and was horrified. Literally. The picture doesn't do it justice. I pulled out as much as I could and poured in the fresh fluid I had left, and immediately jumped in the car to run to O'Rielly's up the street to get some more fluid. The first thing I noticed is that the whining sound I had gotten used to was nearly gone. WTF????

I got back home and started drawing out more fluid, and continued to be horrified. By the time I filled up the second bottle, the whining was completely gone. All I hear is the purr of the engine (I missed it...).

In the picture, the first bottle is the first batch I drew out mixed with the second draw that had the fresh fluid mixed in. It looks like very thin, very dirty motor oil.



The second bottle is the second two sessions, third... so on. The fourth is my last session, and it's still pretty dirty. But I have to go get more fluid.

Please give me some ideas of how this could happen before I pop off in the wrong direction. Does power steering fluid get this dirty? Is this a decades worth of old fluid? The car has been inspected multiple times in the last couple years, so how quick can this happen? Is there a way for motor oil to get into the power steering system? Even if it did, with how often I change my oil, it's not even that dirty.

Or could it have been an idiot who poured motor oil in the wrong hole? Perhaps a way to get me to come back complaining about the whining so they could sell me a power steering pump? Lastly.... what damage may have been done to the pump and the system? Obviously, I'm freaking out a bit. I hate surprises like this.

Thanks for your insight...

 

Was it low? If so, how low? It's a sealed system so unless it's leaking, the fluid level shouldn't change. The fact that you're having to add any is worrisome.

Foamy is usually an air leak, either from the reservoir being super low + the inlet sucking air, or from some kind of leak pre-pump. It's not usually post pump because the high pressure fluid would shoot out, not pull stuff in.

As for color, how old is the fluid?

It is a thin oil, so there's no surprise there. Some cars, like my gto, use literal ATF for the PS system.

If it's never been changed, then yeah it's probably normal. Dark can be an indication of the fluid getting too hot or from the rubber in the lines breaking down, so the first step is getting all the old fluid out to start over with fresh.

Id check carefully for foaming though - if that reservoir is full and it's still foaming, I'd start looking closer for a leak.

Inspected by who? Id figure a dealer would prompt you to change it if it was that bad, but they could be lazy and just not checking. If it's a state safety inspection, then they may not care - as long as it's full, it passes.

No

No reason to get too worried. Let's get fresh, full fluid in it first. If the fluid darkens quickly, keeps foaming, or the steering doesn't feel right, then we need to dig deeper. But for now the focus should be just completing the fluid exchange.

 

Thank you for the response.
I just did another couple rounds of drawing out the old and refreshening it. After going for a drive, it came out as bad as the first batch. I assume it had a chance to cycle through completely and that's a lot of the gunk from deep in the system. I don't even know how much fluid is actually in the system.

 

I agree with…
Power steering (PS) fluid, like automatic transmission fluid and brake fluid, is a hydraulic fluid. The PS system is a sealed isolated system meaning there's no opportunity for the fluid to come into contact with anything unless a contaminant is introduced (e.g. adding the wrong fluid such as motor oil). The two things that will compromise a hydraulic fluid are contaminants and heat. Contaminants are obvious. Heat breaks down some of the beneficial properties designed into the hydraulic fluid; that's why there are auxiliary transmission and power steering coolers.

You may want to flush your PS system which, unfortunately, is a messy job. The way to do it is to raise the front of the car, disconnect the low pressure (return) hose from the pump, open/remove the cap on the reservoir, pour fresh fluid into the reservoir then, using a remote starter button and making certain the ignition is OFF (i.e., remove the ignition key), run the starter while keeping the reservoir filled. Have a helper turn the steering wheel from lock to lock and back several times while running the starter. When the fluid coming out of the return hose looks clean, stop, button everything up then go for a test drive. You may hear some whine, especially under load like maneuvering in a parking lot, which is ok; that's usually some air in the system which will work its way out by turning the steering wheel from lock to lock several times. If you hear a growl or a loud whine with the wheels pointing straight and not turning the steering wheel, then you may have pump damage.

 

The owners manual likely tells you the exact qty for your vehicle, but most vehicles are right around 1 quart total for the system.

When I swap fluid, I usually just buy 2 to be safe/ to ensure I've got all clean coming out.

 

Just to clarify – dedicated power steering (PS) fluid is colorless whereas automatic transmission fluid (ATF) is red. Older cars equipped with Saginaw PS systems can mix/substitute ATF in place of conventional PS fluid. Part of the color of your fluid could be from ATF.

 

I think you are being told some great information and there is no need for me to add anything else.
However when ever you have a Garage do work on you vehicle you should inspect everything before you leave the location.
Some of these fellows just don't get it.
I had an incident with Brake fluid once and the garage topped off the fluid resivour and did not read the warning on the side that indicated what to do. I caught it before to much of an issue happened.
But it could have been expensive.