I know they are the same power plant and such ,but my wifes brother just got one and wants to do 3.4 pulley, tune and my exhaust hookup guy is only charging him $80 for a non cated down pipe and all the way back to the Y pipe removing cat and resonator muffler that comes in 1 and out 2 pipes.

Well he is wanting to no how bad it would be to drive with just the non cated down pipe and no resonator muffler and with it not being tuned until he got the rest. I told him to wait and do it all at once but he is just wanting to know.

This is a 2 sec thing i made not trying to be perfect but to give u an idea. $80 is a damn good deal going that far back and making a y-pipe. he is going to try out the stock mufflers for now and maybe later down the road put some magnaflow's on it.


I told him what to do so i posted this so he can see with his own eyes lol

 

It will run fine with no cat, just unplug the sensor and zip tie the plug up out of the way. The SES light will be on, but no big deal.

However, the bigger problem here is the 3.4" pulley- no L67 can run a 3.4" pulley safely on a tune catless downpipe, and resonator delete- that is just asking to chip a piston.

edit- ok obviously you could get it to run knock free with the tune, but you'll end up making less power than stock, you'll have to drown the thing in fuel, and pull gobs of timing to do it. That is unless he plans to run race gas 24/7.

 

So he should go with 3.5 pulley and tune from zzp? The motor has already had a stock rebuild and the trans is rebuilt because the Car has 176,000 miles. I also told him to put a wideband on it to be safe.

 

nice "paint" job up there, lol i did the same thing a while back.

i personally wouldnt push a car with 176 thousand miles to its limits. but its all about how well it was taken car of.


im not sure about no cat, but deleting a resonator doesnt change anything. now the o2 sensors will throw codes, but a programer will fix that.

i would listen to bumpin about the pully, hes pretty darn smart.

 

i mean if it was my car it would have the 3.4 with meth and a real tune. Im just making it sure its safe for him. Its his 1st car and wants to upgrade it with boltons

 

thats cool. wanna trade your red car for my black one???



it was worth a try.

 

LOL See i keep reading online the 3.4 pulley is safe with a new pcm tune, downpipe and K&N. Thats why i recommended it.

What i read is 3.5 with no tune and 3.4 with tune?? I mean i know the 3.5 is safer but just checking out all the info.


What all he wants ZZP 3.4" pulley - ZZP PCM - stock intake with K&N - colder pulgs - 3" downpipe -180* t-stat

 

from what i hear red devalues a car to the prive of mine anyways. GL with the whole meth thing. thats some mean s***. i used to know a guy who knew a guy. if you know what i mean.

 

I dont trust him enought to run mest so he wont be running it. I mean i know anything there is to know on a v8's i just havent messed with these cars ever and just dont want him to blow it up. The motor has been rebuilt and so has the trans. I see a ton of GTP guys with the mods he wants and are fine. He isnt me and he dosnt no anything about cars other then what he see's so i want to put the 3.5 on it but he keeps seeing everyone else saying the 3.4 is fine with tune. Whats the power difference? 3.4 vs 3.5?

 

I think a 3.5" is likely even pushing it- how many miles on the engine rebuild? I also think a wideband is a waste of money unless he has a tuning program and will be tuning it. Having a wideband on a car with a drop in pcm from zzp or something is useless. A wideband is only useful as a tuning tool, and if he won't be doing pcm tuning, its not worth messing with. If he wants a gauge really bad, have him get an aeroforce scan tool gauge so he can monitor KR- that would be WAY more valuable.

IMO meth is a waste of time on a 3.4". You can run a 3.4" pulley safely with basic bolt on mods- and never worry about refilling a tank, or worrying about a pump going dead. To me, that would be like adding an intercooler just to run a 3.4"- you add a bunch of extra crap and problem spots for a pulley level that can be easily supported with worry free hard part upgrades.

Whoever said that you can run a 3.4" with a drop in pcm tune (like ZZP), a downpipe, and a K&N-doesn't have much experience scanning L67 cars. I have NEVER seen an L67 run knock free with those mods on a 3.4" If you don't believe me, post up on clubgp (big 3800 site)- they'll back that statement up 100%.

How many of those GTP guys actually scan their cars? I just honestly doubt they are truly running knock free 3.4" setups with the little mod list you posted. You can't really tell if its knocking, or if you have chipped a piston without a scan tool. I will say, if you know for a fact that they are running 0 KR with those mods that they are VERY lucky, and one of the few.

No one can tell you that because the supporting mods are different- so it wouldn't "just" be a pulley change, you'd add more mods as well (or already have done the extra mods). I will tell you that I've seen 3.4" pulley cars with similar mods get beaten by BONE STOCK L67's because they knock so bad. I would say the bulk of L67's seem to be knock monsters (maybe 60% or so), even stock- then maybe another 30% are more normal and have very little knock stock, then the last 10% are the freaks that can run knock free on smaller pulley setups with minimal mods, but that is rare.


I'll try and bring you up to speed a little on the L67 specific stuff, since it seems like you know your stuff on engines in general. The main thing to worry about when modding an L67 is KR- knock. Obviously you need a scan tool (or scan gauge) to read this. Your best bet is to scan the car how it sits right now at WOT- I bet he already has a good bit of KR bone stock (likely 4-6* at WOT, even on premium fuel). When you do your first bolt on's that he was looking at, he'll likely be able to get rid of most or all of the stock knock. Dropping to a 3.4" or 3.5" pulley is just going to bring that knock back.

See, the L67's don't seem to like running much below stock timing levels, and when you add a bunch of boost without supporting mods, and start getting 5+* KR, the thing falls on its face. The other bad thing is, if you get a good bit of knock on a smaller pulley, it will chip pistons. Chipped pistons are crazy common on L67's.

I will admit, I've never seen a chipped piston on a stock pulley. The bad thing is, people do what mods they think will be enough, or that their buddies tell them are enough- and stick a smaller pulley on without scanning. What makes it worse is it seems like the bulk of people don't even realize they chipped pistons unless they get lucky and a piece smashes the spark plug closed before it exits. A lot of time people just start to realize more and more that their car seems excessively slower than it should be- then pull the head, and BAM- 2 or 3 chipped pistons.

So with that said, if he's just looking at doing:

and he isn't able to scan for KR- then I'd scrap the pulley idea altogether. That way you guarantee it will be safer and faster, than just guessing that it might have little to no knock on a 3.4/3.5. You'd hate to put all that crap on there, only to stick a 3.5" pulley on, get 6* of KR, and end up with a car thats stock slow again.

If he really is set on a 3.4" and can't scan- I'd recommend this: 180* thermostat, autolite copper 104 plugs, 1.9 modded stock rockers, CAI or FWI, headers (or PLOG and 3" downpipe), pcm tune (drop in from zzp is fine-preferably with stock shift points due to the rockers).

Now I know this seems like a lot, but its really all fairly cheap- just do all the mods before the 3.4", and you're set. This also pretty much guarantees ~300 crank horsepower. However, some people still have a little bit of KR (2-3*) on this setup, especially if they don't get headers. Sure some cars can run knock free with a little less- but that is NOT the norm, and its all about having virtually no KR to be safe and fast.

Also, the stuff isn't that expensive- plugs and a thermostat are cheap, a pcm is only like $100 (or cheaper if you can find someone local to give you a quick custom tune), modded stock rockers run about $200 shipped, headers are about $300 new and include a downpipe (or a plog is about $100 shipped used and a 3" DP is about $100 shipped used), so you're talking very little money for a safe setup that adds a ton of power to stock.

Plus, a FWI can be made for under $100- and the supercharger will scream WAY louder without the stock airbox.

I think that covered it all pretty much...