5.3l what mufflers to get
 

just having trouble piking a muffler so far i c there are about 3 choices the magnaflow cat back flowmaster 40's and then the super 44's the magna are real deep but nnot very loud the 40's sond just like my 3800 and the 44's areloud but dry sounding and suggestions and i here ppl talking about changing there down pipe what does this mean? thanks 4 the help

RE: 5.3l what mufflers to get
 

There are way more than just 3 choices- any exhaust shop can make a catback, and you should be able to find at least one fairly local that can do mandrel bent.

Ok- so imagine your two cylinder heads- each one has an exhaust manifold coming off of it- right? The two manifolds connect together at the rear of the engine, and then a pipe runs down from the rear of the engine- goes through a catalytic converter and bolts up to your "cat back" exhaust.

This piece of pipe (including the cat) is called your downpipe.

RE: 5.3l what mufflers to get
 

coming from a man who bought a cat-back system, don't. they are ridulously expensive for what you're getting.

i say swing by a muffler shop after picking out the type of muffler you want and tell the guy thats what you want put on. if he can't get them, find a shop that can. personally, i say chop those mufflers off and have straight pipes run :)

RE: 5.3l what mufflers to get
 

but u guys have any recomendations magna, 40's, 44's or straight pipes

RE: 5.3l what mufflers to get
 

If you zip code in your profile is correct.
Please do me a favor and CAN the idea of a muffler shop cat back.
Road salt if you drive that in the winter will render it useless in under 3 years and since it rots away, so will your warranty on the rest of the exhaust.
The Moss deal only applies to aftermarket, not Joe Shmoe muffler shop.

Yes there expensive, but the only other option to cover your behind is replacing the factory ones with stainless aftermarkets.

Sound is up to you.
Me I wouldn't accept a Blowmaster if it was given to me.
Its not a performance muffler, its a echo chamber.

RE: 5.3l what mufflers to get
 

You do realize that you can buy the same stainless piping that they make catbacks with- and have a shop bend it themselves right? If you find a shop with a mandrel bender- chances are they have stainless available- at least for order.

Also, I don't think I'd personally bother replacing the whole exhaust- the power difference isn't worth it IMO, and the best route with all that brand new stock stainless piping would be just to get new stainless mufflers. You get the better sound for a fraction of the price of a catback.

I don't understand what this means. The "Moss deal" means they can't refuse to warranty your radio, your power steering pump, your left taillight, etc etc just because you put an aftermarket exhaust on.

It doesn't matter if you buy a catback from a company online or have a shop make it- it will no longer be a warranted part from the dealer (unless you buy a GM made exhaust), but it will not effect the warranty on anything else as I said above. That shouldn't make a bit of difference which way you go.

RE: 5.3l what mufflers to get
 

First off, its a rarity to find a shop that uses and has mandrel bending devices for 409 stainless steel. That will hard enough on its own.

Secondly I use to own a auto forum for a number of years and did some heavy research into the warranty rulings dealing with aftermarket.

Say he goes and has a exhaust done.
The warranty on emissions WILL be effected. That warranty states 8 years, 80,000 on emissions parts. That includes cat and related parts, meaning the whole exhaust.

The Magnuson Moss act has a little over looked provision in it that applies heavily.
These so called aftermarket parts MUST CARRY A CARB#. Tested by the CARB board to met or exceed OEM in every shape or form.
Has your local shop gone through such lengths? The dealer can and most likely will argue you changed the perimeters of exhaust flow enough that it has created a problem.
Saw this happen many a time by people from boards fabbing up their own stuff while a car is under warranty. No it doesn't effect the rest of the car, but it effects anything that can be tied to the exhaust and exhaust type problems.

No the dealer still doesn't warranty the aftermarket part, but your cat and 02 sensors would be.
Even the bend delete pipe ruins the cat warranty and rear 02. No carb #, well.

RE: 5.3l what mufflers to get
 

We had a shop in town that had a mandrel bender- they just didn't keep any stainless in stock. You could buy your own online, or they could order through their supplier. Maybe this is unusual... I dunno

I looked heavily into the magnaflowcatback for that car, and I cannot find anywhere that they have a carb EO # for it. Honestly, I've never heard anyone run into the problem of not having a carb # outside of CA.

A local shop can't get a carb # for a 1 off exhaust- thats practicallyimpossible.

I honestly don't think there will be a difference between buying an aftermarket catback w/ no carb # and having your own exhaust done.

If you're that worried about it- do like I said above, and just replace the mufflers. That way you leave all the stock piping and just change the sound like you wanted. I bet the power difference between that and a catback is zip- and there is no way a dealer will void a warranty on your cat/O2 because you changed mufflers out back.

Even if they did for some ridiculous reason- how much is a high flow cat (or cat delete if you dont have emissions)- and a pair of new O2 sensors online, if they all did happen to go bad at some point?

RE: 5.3l what mufflers to get
 

California set the standard.
NY, which is were the OP zip code locates him at follows the lead California has. Mass and a few other states also have adopted this standard.
Believe me Magnaflow has a CARB # otherwise you can't sell them.

RE: 5.3l what mufflers to get
 

i second the notion for straight pipes

RE: 5.3l what mufflers to get
 

Are you trying to say that every company that sells catbacks has a carb eo- because that is definitely not true. Look at the zzp catbacks (for the 3800, but its the same idea)- they don't have a carb #. They've said before how insanely expensive it is to get carb approval for a product, and that only really big companies can afford to do it.

Or are you trying to say that magnaflow has to have it because they are such a big company (which I would've thought they did- but they mention it nowhere on their website).

The reason I mention it- is it sounds like you're trying to say that every full catback system sold is going to have a carb #- making it superior over a small shop job, or a simple muffler replacement, and thats just not always the case.

RE: 5.3l what mufflers to get
 

[quote]ORIGINAL: bumpin96monte


Now your implying more than I said.

Now I'll make it very clear for those whom are assuming.

Some states, NY included have adopted California standards whether it be in whole or part.
No carb#, can't be used in those states. During inspection that carb# must be under the hood and visible.

If you do change it in any fashion in one of these states, then its the discretion of the inspection station. Does he want to risk a up to $25,000 fine for a judgement call that according to law isn't allowed?

As far as quality, no one said anything.
But I will add Aluminized is junk.
409 is better junk and will last 2-3 times longer.
300 series is cats ass. Doesn't rust and carries no normal steel properties that 409 has.

Most all exhaust companies do have carb #'s. This its costly to get one is a excuse for bull sh*t. It isn't that cheap, but its not overlly expensive and is in cooperated into the cost you pay. If it doesn't carry a carb# according to law it must be represented as OFF ROAD USE ONLY.

Sorry thems the laws.
I didn't make anything up
He is in NY and so and I. I was protecting his ass from outsiders that don't understand.

RE: 5.3l what mufflers to get
 

Not trying to be a prick, simply explaining the laws surrounding this.
With the dealers, they according to federal law have to warranty the emissions for 8 years 80,000 miles.
With Magnuson deal being passed, they still want to protect their a**es along with the manufacturer for costs etc.
If it doesn't carry a carb#, they can fail that part and any associated with it, warranty wise.

So with that said.
Headers with carb# are ok, full warranty.
Cat back with a carb# even with headers with them are ok.
From the manifold to the last connection beyond the test 02 sensor after the cat is considered ONE PIECE and must be replaced if bad in ONE PIECE. Those down pipes, u bend deletes and even separate purchased and replaced cat, voids the emissions warranty. They won't ever get a carb#.

Some states don't give a hoot, some DO.
Some dealers will work with you, some WON'T.
Dealers and inspection stations can face up to $25,000 fines and loss of inspection licenses.

I'm just trying to tell you before you go and do such thing, which is your right and choice, know what you face if you haven't done your homework. That $20 part pay cost you alot more if conditions are wrong. You want to eat it, its your choice!!!

RE: 5.3l what mufflers to get
 

So you're saying that all the exhaust shops out there can only replace a broken piece with a complete OEM replacement, oran aftermarket with a carb #; otherwise the vehicle can't be inspected in NY? So, if I got a hole in my stock muffler- I would have to buy a complete stock catback, or a complete aftermarket catback w/ carb #? That doesn't seem right.

I looked up the NY inspection points, and it doesn't mention anything about the mufflers being inspected for emissions or safety:

http://www.nydmv.state.ny.us/broch/c-50.htm

Also, I doubt they'd fine him $25,000 if because he swapped mufflers- you're way over exaggerating that.

Its not an excuse- its a ridiculously high cost- much higher than you must be thinking, especially for a smaller shop. I remember zzp was thinking about doing it so they could sell their catbacks and headers in CA, and they said with the volume they planned on that it would add almost 50% to the price to get it certified for all the vehicles tehy wanted it to work on. Not overly expensive my butt...

I dunno man, I didn't realize your state sucked as bad as CA- it just seems odd that every car with modded exhaust has bought a carb approved catback or they all fail emissions- thats strange. Also, you must have some crappy dealers out there- I've never heard a dealer around here void the warranty for any exhaust work done behind the cat- including the u-bend; heck I've had warranty work done on my O2 sensors when I had a ubend delete and different mufflers out back and they never said anything.

Sucks for you guys in NY and CA then, thank God for the rest of us who don't live in retarded states so we can do what we want to our cars instead of what the government allows.

RE: 5.3l what mufflers to get
 

CA has weird laws, i know nothing of them. i've heard it was basically illegal to modify anything but visual things about yoru car there anyway. i suppose there are certain things you can do, but from what I hear even a CAI is illegal.

RE: 5.3l what mufflers to get
 

I've heard the same stuff about CA- but I've never heard that NY was as bad.

RE: 5.3l what mufflers to get
 

Part one:

Connecticut, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, New Jersey, New York, Oregon, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, Vermont, and Washington have all adopted either in part or whole California emissions laws. Five states that have said they plan to jump on board are Arizona, Colorado, Florida, New Mexico, and Utah.
Part Two:
Federal law on emissions state cat forward is untouchable unless using OEM or OEM exceeded spec parts. The only ones to met that have been CARB approved.
Part Three:Anything carrying a CARB # has been approved as 50 state legal. This includes CAI kits even in California.

Part Four:
I stated very clearly, but your so caught up in the rest of it, muffler changes would be no big deal. Even forward of that to the cat, just check with your local laws for inspection etc. I recommended stainless steel which will explained in part 5.
Part Five:
This wasn't brought up before, but I will now include it.I call it the Ricer mentality, actually lacking common sense approach to vehicle modification.This is when you look at cost up front, but miss the long term gain.Go to your local bend anything pipe store. Save a few hundred dollars to get really nothing in performance, but dam it SOUNDS faster.If you live near salt waters or in states that use road salt, you now have a 3 year max life exhaust system. The stock one was warrantied in whole or parts to 8 years, 80,000 miles, which was all ready bought and paid for.
Good move stupid!!You saved $200+ bucks, but 3 years down the road for the same $200-$300 you have to do it again.A GM performance exhaust is $449, will last 8-10 years, what did you save?Its 50 state legal, so no possible warranty denials, no state inspection problems and you beat the Ricer Stupidity deal.
The idea of my replies is to make someone think, but I guess that ain't gonna happen with some.
You have Federal lawsYou have State LawsYou have Ricer lack of common sense purchasingAnd Warranty problems that could arise for each and every modification you may attempt to do and need to think, where do I want to be. If you want to play it dumb, by all means, but I gave you the option.

As to CARB being expensive. HAHAHAHAHA.You want to know the dollars involved, less than $10K for the most serious of mods.But when you sell illegal parts to begin with and your out for the dollar more than protecting your consumers and your volume sucks against the likes of JBA, Gibson, Borla, Corsa and the list goes on. I guess adding 50% to the cost is real, you 4 systems to their 50!
You know how many interent companies were started by someone on a forum, seeing a profitable need???
I could write a book in this.From the time I started on car forums in 1995, I could tell you what forum they started on, jobs held before etc.
My hats off to them, really, I sold my own a few years back.
Surf the forums, find where the gullible reside and their needs and wants and then grant those wishes. F**k the laws, F**k everything else but the buck, just somewhere list FOR OFF ROAD USE ONLY and your protected from everything!!Honest judge, the part was sold for racing only, how did I know that .009 of a second at $$$ was worth it on the street.Case Dismissed, no up held charges!!

RE: 5.3l what mufflers to get
 

This guy is talking about doing a catback, and I reccomended that in addition to the catbacks out there to look into either having a local shop do it, or just doing a simple muffler swap. So that is all this thread is about is from the cat back- so what does this matter?

Then why do you still argue for buying the one of 2 or 3 carb approved catbacks- and why argue about him getting fined and losing his emission warranty, if its no big deal. If it really is no big deal, then I don't really understand what you're arguing about here?

What long term gain? You can swap both mufflers with stainless for under $200- and get the sound you want with still a 100% stainless system and gain the 1 or 2 horsepower. Or you can spend $500-1000 on a full carb approved catback, and still have a stainless system and still gain 1 or 2 horsepower.

Its not being a ricer- its called giving yourself options and going fast for cheap. Think of it this way- roughly the same hp gain (practically zip), both stainless, and 2x to 5x the cost. Its not being a ricer, its called being smart with your money.

Thats why I said- most shops with a mandrel bender should be able to order stainless or let you bring your own, and from what I've seen- they can generally beat the price of a catback (by a large amount on the $1000 systems). Its just a matter of having options, and not being stuck into 2 or 3 setups- and if you don't live in CA and aren't required to have carb #s for everything (talking behind the cat here), then who cares if it has a carb # or not?

hahahaha- $10k is a lot of money for a small company... dee dee deee. Say you plan to sell 20 catbacks- that means you add $500 to the price of every kit- making you way uncompetitive considering you have an easy $250-300 in parts, plus labor for doing the bending- and you'd still like to turn a profit.

The way its setup, you almost have to have a high production piece to make it worth your while.

As far as catbacks go, I've honestly never heard ANYONE except people in CA REQUIRE a carb #, so who cares if you can't sell it in 1/50 states?

RE: 5.3l what mufflers to get
 

I have an 06 LS and I had 2.5" pipe installed from the cat out, took of the resonator and ended the system with two Super 40s with stainless steel tips.
Check out my vid here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axKZRPLq_7E