Great factoid Duane.

 

lol... Cowboy... Words spoken by a young man who has never seen combat. Who has never seen his best friend's head half blown off with the brain matter splattered all over you, or their legs torn off and they're screaming for your help, and there is nothing you can do but hold their hand and comfort them until they pass. Whats thedeal? We have two-wars going on, one that is quitely happening -- Afghanistan (and the right war), and then theSTUPID war going on in Iraq. Iraq NEVER was a threat! They never were going to be a threat to the U.S., or to its neighbors for many years to come.

What they were... suppose to be...was an easy targetthat was to bequickly overrun,a puppet government put into place, and we were to come out smelling like a rose with another "Friendly" Oil producing Middle-Eastern country in our pocket -- all in a matter of a month or two at the most. OOPS! Georgie andThe Stupid Gang under estimated the INTERNAL RELIGIOUS WAR that Hussein had in check (as butal as he was about it)

Now to address your last statement.
U.S. Popular opinion and OUR WORLD RESPONSIBILITY are typically two different things. But in this case, Georgie and The Stupid Gang had popular opinion on their side after he LIED to them. NOW, we must be really kidding ourselves, because George and The Stupid Gang now are trying to convinceus he and our military can resolve the conflicts in Iraq that have been going on for over200-years -- actually since about 600 A.D., but whose counting. NOT GOING TO HAPPEN!!! We need to pull out and let the countries of the region settle it -- Which won't happen either, and the Whole Region will in up in war -- ohwait, maybe Georgie was told by Godthis is how he wanted theBIG WAR to start. Maybe I have been looking at Georgie all wrong... Maybe Georgie is just a instrument of God...

 

I think most people will tell you they don't like war, but do see it as a necessity at times. And this is one of those times. I'm not the biggest fan of GWB, but I do believe any president in their right mind would have gone to war after 9/11. GWB may have lost some credibility when he shifted the focus away from Osama and moved to Iraq instead, but either way I think the whole war on terrorismmay bea lost cause at this point. Because people in the middle east see this as war being declared on their religion. And they are willing to do what ever they have to do, and fight to the death to protect their religion. Then there are the ones who see the business side of things. Oil being huge business. There are those that are looking at the war on terrorism as a battle for control of the middle east's oil supply. It doesn't matter if I believe that or not, the fact is it's happening, intentionally or not.

I really believe who ever becomes the next president (republican or democrat) has a huge can of worms to deal with because they are faced with a dillema. On one hand they got a war that's cost ungodly amounts of money and lives, that's dam near impossible to win. On the other hand, if they pull out, it sends a message that America can be defeated if you hold out long enough.

 

well how many people do you think have seen been to war Craig? no, you got me... i've never been to war. i've been to southside Chicago... thats close, but doesn't cut it. i know Saddam had weapons of mass destruction.... think of it like this: we didn't just throw a surprsie invasion for Saddam... he would not let UN inspectors into his country, except on occasion and he would only allow them to see what he wanted them to see, not what was actually there. what was he hiding Criag? he became more and more secretive as the years went past. The UN even threatened to use a coaliton of nations to overthrow him. I know beyond a shadow of a doubt in my mind Iraq had these weapons. the US threatened to invade for about 6-9 months before invading. that is PLENTY of time to get your weapons of mass destruction out and hope when you go to trial for what you did to your people for 20 years, they have that much less evidence on you. Where are they? Well, let me pose this scenario. You are an avid gun owner. President Hitlary Rodham Clinton bans all guns, for any purpose. The law goes into effect in 2009. Aren't you going to do something over the next year to hide the gun that will protect you and your familys lives? When the government comes to collect your firearms, are you just going to tell them it was destoryed, somethign ot that matter? Myabe that isn't the best example. But look at all these countries around Iraq. Syria, Lebanon, Iran, even Saudi Arabia would probably love to hold a few weapons of mass destruction. Weapons can be moved, documents can be edited. Proof can be erased, if you are clever enough.


BTW, I would also like to comment that this thread has gone VERY far from its original purpose.

 

Craig, below is the entire quote. I see you are only wishing to pull out the part you want people to read as you amke your argument. If you would see, in the entire paragraph I am trying to make the point that Kerry and the other Democrats with rich parents (Kennedy....) could get an education as easily as Bush did. I was also trying to point out that the Presidnet takes the rap for how the troops are doing. He is not a troop, he did not train a troop. He could pass executive orders nad demand more spending.. but the defnese department has a budget bigger than most of the GDP's of nations out there today. Once again... if you read the entire quote, you will see that I was poseing scenarios that could be done in Iraq... trianing the troops better would take years to get such a progrma threw.. .and America doesn't want to send more troops. Why did you choose to cut out the part only part of htel ast sentence?

 

Yeah, what was Saddam hiding?

 

Why did you choose to cut out the part only part of htel ast sentence?

In a debate as in politics, you only quote what you want to jump on or capitalize on. Also, as in politics... I take nothing personal or too serious, so I hope you and Solara don't either. I love debating and politics. Its like when I was 18, and I was a bouncer. I could fight with someone, and when it was all over, help them up, dust them off and the next day welcome them and buy them a beer. It was nothing personal, it was business.

The same here... I speak my mind, and so do you... When it all over... we're still friends, and the beer is on me.

Now, back to the debate...
Taz... The war on terrorism has nothing to do with Iraq, nothing! Again, Iraq was to be an easy target, take a little Texas Revenge, put a puppet government in place, and all was to be good. Quick, easy, profitable, and beneficial... W's Stupid Gang miscalculated -- doesn't get any simplier than that...

Who is talking about winning? This is a LOSE, LOSE situation. There is no chance in hell we or anyone else could win! The war on terrorism is a JOKE!The onlyway to really win is to let DELTA do there thing unimpeded. Is that going to happen? NO!!! See... politicsis always going to impede victory!

Beside... How many of your civil liberties have been taken away from you because of the so called War on Terrorism. Yeah, yeah... "I will gladly give up some of my freedoms to win the war on terrorism and to secure our country." HA HA HA HA HA... The NSA, CSS, CIA, FBI, DIA all LOVE YOU! Is our country any more secure today than it was 9/10? NO!!! Will it ever be? Might if you keep letting them take all your freedoms away! You ready that? I sure hope your not!

What was Sadam hiding? Most likely Chemical weapons... Big Deal! He has had them for years and years. Even when he was our friend (remember Iraq and Sadam wasour ALLIED when he killed all those kurds in the north -- and we turned a blind eye to it) But so does almost every country in the world (have chemical weapons), think that one isn't true and you are really fooling yourself. But nukes? NO WAY! Why?Most of the countries surrounding Iraq, did not like Sadam nor trusted him and they would be in the know if he had them and THEY would have taken action.

 

WTF? We already have the best military money can buy, possibly the best military in the history of the world. Thank God, they weren't trained by Bush, LOL. Unfortunatley, their hands have been tied behind their backs since the beginning.
What should have happened is this:
When we had the terrorists trapped at Tora Bora, we should have covered the escape route with the 10th Mountain Division, which was sitting in Uzbekistan waiting to be called into action. Instead, the master tactician, Donald Rumsfeld, decided to use local Afghan forces. The Afghans promptly agreed to let the terrorists escape to Pakistan for a large sum of money.
At this point, instead of just going into Pakistan after the terrorist scum (hot pursuit), the powers that be called off offensive operations. If Pakistan had objected to us going after them, we should have went anyway, ala Iraq.

As far as Iraq, sure, they had plenty of time to hide weapons, hell, we gave them 9 months to do so.But you should remember who taught them how to make those weapons, and maybe even provided some of the basic ingredients to build them. That's right, it was us. Between the U.S. and UK, we provided the schooling, training, and technology to help Saddam start and build up his chemical weapons program to begin with. Because at the time, Saddam was fighting our OTHER hated country in the region, Iran.

As for the 17% vs 5%, that kind of sounds like what we have now, except the 5% is the number of our population actively serving in the military. It just burns my butt to hear all these people, who really haven't got a clue about war and fighting wars (kind of like the Bush/Cheney administration), talking about how we should do this, or we should do that, yet when push comes to shove, THEY aren't willing to serve. Seems they have better things to do. They are like this, really,

http://netcool.files.wordpress.com/2...awk-783724.jpg

In the end though, I'm with Craig on this:

 

 

Mad... if you would have read this post and shown this you wuold have seen I addressed the problem of how how much spending is going to our defense department.... honestly, it is too much. Our Military has a budget bigger than all but i think 6 countries GDP. Plus, everyone has chemical weapons... why would he want to hide his? Tahts ilke the governemnt coming to inspect your guns and finding you have a perfectly legal revolver... why would you hide that? Now in my mind, this war should have been over 15 years before ti started... but Bush Sr. didn't finish the job. Hussein already proved he was willing to oppress people, even those who weren't his own. Now popular opinion in the US prior to this was that if there was a ruthless dictator doing horrible, oppressive things to the people of his country... they US should probably do something baout it. Okay, he hanged for what he did.... and you guys are crying about it.

And about only using part of quotes... atleats Criag is willing to admit it. There is a great book out... "The Terrible Truth about Liberals",. and it mentions how when you face a liberal with facts and reasoning, they call "HATE SPEECH" or call you a liar, then get mad. Ahh.. I see more truth in it everyday.