RWD Mod
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 565
its been done on multiple occasions and the cars it was done to were definitely not babied.
Fbodies themselves are notorious for it- and they were factory built RWD muscle cars- check the rear wheel wells on a drag raced 98-02 Fbody (with aftermarket subframe connectors) and see what I mean.
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 1,910
From: nj
I have had my monte on the 4 wheel scales while I was at school. I weighed in at almost 3500 lbs. The 5th gens were the lightest of the w-body montes by far. I would venture that the LS4 montes are closer to 3600lbs. Everywhere I look online I find curb weights between 3400-3500lbs for the V8 camaros.
Now if there is someone out there converting FWD cars to RWD without reinforcing the rear somehow then thats their business but thats definately not the correct way to do it. You cant just weld on some mounts and bolt in the rear suspension and go. The rear of FWD cars really dont have much support at all. They arent designed to take the strain of having power put to the rear wheels. If you were to use the existing structure and go on your way, there is no way that it will hold up to strain and keep from twisting out of spec. It definately wouldnt perform like a RWD car would either.
I have only seen one monte converted to RWD and IIRC it wasnt even on the road when I saw it last. I havent heard anything about it since. I dont know what montes you are referring to when you say it has been done on multiple occasions. I would be interested in reading about them. Its always cool to see unique cars like that.
Now if there is someone out there converting FWD cars to RWD without reinforcing the rear somehow then thats their business but thats definately not the correct way to do it. You cant just weld on some mounts and bolt in the rear suspension and go. The rear of FWD cars really dont have much support at all. They arent designed to take the strain of having power put to the rear wheels. If you were to use the existing structure and go on your way, there is no way that it will hold up to strain and keep from twisting out of spec. It definately wouldnt perform like a RWD car would either.
I have only seen one monte converted to RWD and IIRC it wasnt even on the road when I saw it last. I havent heard anything about it since. I dont know what montes you are referring to when you say it has been done on multiple occasions. I would be interested in reading about them. Its always cool to see unique cars like that.
MCSS
Quote:
Exterior
Length: 196.7 in. Width: 72.9 in.
Height: 55.8 in. Wheel Base: 110.5 in.
Curb Weight: 3549 lbs.
the member that was on here got the car running, and it was on the road. he even posted a video of the car doing some serious donuts and burn outs. i cant post a link to his video or any of his in progress build pics because they have been taken down. he got into a big flame war on ls1 tech and some other forums where ppl didnt appreciate his driving and what not. (even though it was on a closed street with police present) he removed the pics because people were prying and trying to find out exactly how he did his build. he does fabrication and it wouldnt make sense to give everyone step by step instructions with pictures if you own a business and were trying to make money doing it. he did reinforce the car and did modify the tunnel. he did weigh the car and it was only slightly heavier then when it was fwd. there have been multiple,v8, rwd setups on 5gen montes. ive posted a vid on here before. unfortunately i didnt save the pms where we discussed the car the only ones i have are what the future plans were for it. heres the members name (2000MonteCarloRwd) that actually did the conversion. if you look at his album he has early pics of when the motor went into the car, the interior gutted, and the corvette rear installed. after that he had pics of the new tunnel, the console, the wheels on it, and a video of the car ripping it up. feel free to message him and ask him if the car twisted, how he did it, what it weighed, and whatever else you would like to know.
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/..._ss/index.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJKsDAhKusM
Now you have vvv
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/..._ss/index.html
considering the times the car ran i guess the crumpling took place after the article went to print.
[/QUOTE Fbodies themselves are notorious for it- and they were factory built RWD muscle cars- check the rear wheel wells on a drag raced 98-02 Fbody (with aftermarket subframe connectors) and see what I mean./QUOTE]
all unibody cars are known to flex under hard launch,whats your point? why would a monte body flex any more then a camaro body? like i said its been done multiple times. as in more than once and more than twice. by slapping a body on a frame or with a full conversion. all of them were launched hard with out "crumpling". if you have a link of converted monte carlo that "crumpled" on a hard launch id like to see it. the whole point of doing this is that the person doing it likes the montes body, but wants a rwd v8 car. why would someone want that you ask? because they want to drag race the car and to do burnouts with out looking retarded doing fwd burnouts.
to the OP like i said. this whole thing would be in the same price range as a low mileage f body and would perform just as well. it can be done for way less then buying a ls1 car if you have the fabrication skills, tools, and space to do it. the car will not "crumple", cost you a million dollars to do, or weigh tons more converted.
to anyone else that would like to continue debating this feel free to pm me. im not on here much since i moved and dont feel like having a back and forth in some one elses thread.
Last edited by TheMonteMan; Sep 17, 2010 at 10:39 AM.
The 2000 RWD was the one I remember seeing on here.
The green Z34 was actually more of a rebody, not really a RWD conversion. They took a monte and cut the platform out from under it and welded in the entire platform of a camaro, strut towers and all. I have seen that one before. That one is going to perform like a RWD car because, well its a camaro with a different body, not really a monte with RWD parts. I still believe a FWD car without any added support will not handle the strain of a RWD drivetrain, but I guess we really arent dissagreeing on that subject since the ones you are showing actually are reinforced. Somewhere in the text I think we missunderstood each other. I thought you were saying its ok to bolt in a RWD drivetrain into a FWD body without reinforcing it and I believe you thought I am saying that a RWD drivetrain will destroy a FWD car even if you reinforce it. I think we are actually on the same page there.
As for the weight and cost of the car, it does really depend on how you do it and who does it. It can be cheaper if you do everything yourself and alot more expensive if you have to pay to have things done. I think we are on the same page there as well. Also, depending on how you reinforce the car, it can be really heavy or be just a little heavier. A complete backhalf, subframe connectors and even a roll cage if you choose to is going to add some serious weight to the car. Hell, I put a cage in a honda civic hatch that weighed 58lbs itself. That type of reinforcement is really necessary if you plan on constantly hammering on the car like dragracing it every weekend. It may not be necessary to take all those measures depending on how you run the car. On the street, you may be able to get away with light reinforcement and still have a decently sturdy car. Would I skimp on the reinforcement tho? No I wouldnt but thats just me. You may have no trouble with the car at all with just light reinforcement, but I wouldnt take the chance. I have cut apart too many unibody cars to trust their structural integrity.
Well you said what you needed to say, I said what I needed to say. If we still dissagree then thats too bad. Im not trying to be an ******* or offend you or argue with you or anything, I just enjoy debating and stating my opinion. And thats just it, we all have opinions. We all learned from different people and we all have had different kinds of experiences with cars so we may not always agree. Unless we agree to dissagree.
The green Z34 was actually more of a rebody, not really a RWD conversion. They took a monte and cut the platform out from under it and welded in the entire platform of a camaro, strut towers and all. I have seen that one before. That one is going to perform like a RWD car because, well its a camaro with a different body, not really a monte with RWD parts. I still believe a FWD car without any added support will not handle the strain of a RWD drivetrain, but I guess we really arent dissagreeing on that subject since the ones you are showing actually are reinforced. Somewhere in the text I think we missunderstood each other. I thought you were saying its ok to bolt in a RWD drivetrain into a FWD body without reinforcing it and I believe you thought I am saying that a RWD drivetrain will destroy a FWD car even if you reinforce it. I think we are actually on the same page there.
As for the weight and cost of the car, it does really depend on how you do it and who does it. It can be cheaper if you do everything yourself and alot more expensive if you have to pay to have things done. I think we are on the same page there as well. Also, depending on how you reinforce the car, it can be really heavy or be just a little heavier. A complete backhalf, subframe connectors and even a roll cage if you choose to is going to add some serious weight to the car. Hell, I put a cage in a honda civic hatch that weighed 58lbs itself. That type of reinforcement is really necessary if you plan on constantly hammering on the car like dragracing it every weekend. It may not be necessary to take all those measures depending on how you run the car. On the street, you may be able to get away with light reinforcement and still have a decently sturdy car. Would I skimp on the reinforcement tho? No I wouldnt but thats just me. You may have no trouble with the car at all with just light reinforcement, but I wouldnt take the chance. I have cut apart too many unibody cars to trust their structural integrity.
Well you said what you needed to say, I said what I needed to say. If we still dissagree then thats too bad. Im not trying to be an ******* or offend you or argue with you or anything, I just enjoy debating and stating my opinion. And thats just it, we all have opinions. We all learned from different people and we all have had different kinds of experiences with cars so we may not always agree. Unless we agree to dissagree.
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,452
Honestly...after all the money and time you'd put into it, you're much better off just buying a used F-Body with some bolt-ons.
I can understand wanting to be "unique"...but some things just aren't practical unless you're in the customs business. It's been done...but not reliably or necessarily in a clean manner.
I can understand wanting to be "unique"...but some things just aren't practical unless you're in the customs business. It's been done...but not reliably or necessarily in a clean manner.
i honestly dont think it has to be as costly as everyone is making it seem. you can find ls1 drivetrains for a fair price on ebay. the member that was on here and did it gave me a ball park of 8g or so with me providing the drivetrain. so if you could get a drivetrain in the 4-5g range your talk 12-13g. not a terrible price when you consider low mileage ls1 cars go for that if not more.
the rear end of a 94-96 rwd merc couger rear end will bolt up as well as the gas tank.
Link? I've never seen an LS1/RWD Wbody and couldn't imagine the car not having serious stress/flex at launch.
However, this also brings up another point- it seems like there are 3 possible routes:
A-using the current car and reinforcing it to accept welded up mounts for RWD parts
B -using a different RWD lower body and welding that on
C-just building a whole new tube chassis and dropping the body onto that
With option A- who is going to do all the engineering work? You're not just talking welding up some mounts- you're completely changing the design of the car, and it needs to be properly engineered. Considering new platforms spend thousands of man hours in chassis design and engineering, who are you going to trust to make these kinds of changes?
With option B- at least you already have a chassis designed to handle the power, so the engineering is already there- but who do you trust welding it all together (and making the necessary changes to the chassis to make it weld up to the rest of the car)? This isn't something you can leave to anybody, what if welds start breaking doing 100+ MPH at the top end of the track? You could die if this isn't done properly.
Option C is IMO the best option since there are numerous shops out there who fabricate full tube chassis, so you can be sure you'll get a properly engineered setup if you go with a reputable shop- then you're just having to weld up the mounts and attach the bodywork (may as well do a fiberglass shell if you're going this far to help cut weight since you won't need the extra structure anymore).
Last thing to consider- what are you going to do about insurance? You're going to have to tell them that its a custom built vehicle and no longer a production vehicle, and obviously your rates will go way up (more chances for something to go wrong, and much more cost to replace the car if its totalled).
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,452
One other thing to think about- what happens when you get into an accident?
If you're talking about a minor-moderate accident that goes beyond just replacing basic bolt on parts like a hood or fender; I'd bet you'd be screwed finding a body shop willing to repair or straighten a converted car like that (other than tube chassis obviously). I'd bet most shops would turn you away just because they wouldn't want the liability.
If you're talking about a major accident- will the car protect you as well as factory? Obviously a full tube chassis car would have an integrated roll cage- but with the other two, I'd definitely consider adding one just for a little piece of mind if you get into a severe wreck.
If you're talking about a minor-moderate accident that goes beyond just replacing basic bolt on parts like a hood or fender; I'd bet you'd be screwed finding a body shop willing to repair or straighten a converted car like that (other than tube chassis obviously). I'd bet most shops would turn you away just because they wouldn't want the liability.
If you're talking about a major accident- will the car protect you as well as factory? Obviously a full tube chassis car would have an integrated roll cage- but with the other two, I'd definitely consider adding one just for a little piece of mind if you get into a severe wreck.
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 1,910
From: nj
$13k isn't costly? I think that's insane considering most of the cars are worth $5k or less. Plus, then you've got to think- say his car is worth $3k if he sold it- I would rather spend the $16k on a camaro instead of paying someone to swap it or doing it yourself (either way- is the quality of work going to match an OEM car?). Its not like there is a RWD chassis that will just bolt up, so you're talking a lot of custom engineering and modification, and IMO you're better off just getting something that you know is properly engineered and built (ie an OEM RWD car) rather than something some random shop throws together.
