New HD Transmission...
#1
07-25-2007, 03:19 PM
New HD Transmission...
So, because there STILL isn't a section for drivetrain (sigh.. ) I decided to pose this here.
I am going to bite the bullet, and buy the INTENSE HD Tranny. With all the bells and whistles. New higher stall torque converter, new everything, all hardened, and built to be abused.
So, with that, comes two questions I am HOPING that a drivetrain junkie might be able to answer.
This is going to be my first mod, mainly so that I can have a good base to build all of my crazy mods off of. That being said, when I have a new 3.69:1 gear ratio tranny put in with a higher stall torque converter, what kind of damage will i be looking at on my engine? if any? I was thinking it wont do a whole lot, seeing as how literally 2 months after that, I will be doing heads, cams, and the rest of the crazy stuff i wanna do to her...
Second question, will I notice a difference from the stock ratios to the 3.69:1. I was told they will help with acceleration, and also help doing burnouts, because when I floor it, the tires will want to burn out until they are track temperature.. (seeing as how I am also getting an LSD from intense)
I really dont know alot about a transaxle, so any ideas anyone can contribute will help greatly!
As always, thanks in advance everyone.
-Keegan
I am going to bite the bullet, and buy the INTENSE HD Tranny. With all the bells and whistles. New higher stall torque converter, new everything, all hardened, and built to be abused.
So, with that, comes two questions I am HOPING that a drivetrain junkie might be able to answer.
This is going to be my first mod, mainly so that I can have a good base to build all of my crazy mods off of. That being said, when I have a new 3.69:1 gear ratio tranny put in with a higher stall torque converter, what kind of damage will i be looking at on my engine? if any? I was thinking it wont do a whole lot, seeing as how literally 2 months after that, I will be doing heads, cams, and the rest of the crazy stuff i wanna do to her...
Second question, will I notice a difference from the stock ratios to the 3.69:1. I was told they will help with acceleration, and also help doing burnouts, because when I floor it, the tires will want to burn out until they are track temperature.. (seeing as how I am also getting an LSD from intense)
I really dont know alot about a transaxle, so any ideas anyone can contribute will help greatly!
As always, thanks in advance everyone.
-Keegan
#2
07-25-2007, 05:29 PM
RE: New HD Transmission...
ORIGINAL: ExplosiveSoundz
So, because there STILL isn't a section for drivetrain (sigh.. ) I decided to pose this here.
I am going to bite the bullet, and buy the INTENSE HD Tranny. With all the bells and whistles. New higher stall torque converter, new everything, all hardened, and built to be abused.
So, with that, comes two questions I am HOPING that a drivetrain junkie might be able to answer.
This is going to be my first mod, mainly so that I can have a good base to build all of my crazy mods off of.
Abseloutly. This is an excellent Idea.
That being said, when I have a new 3.69:1 gear ratio tranny put in with a higher stall torque converter, what kind of damage will i be looking at on my engine? if any?
I dont really forsee much, if any damage from upgrading the transmission. The higher stall speed of the torque converter may make your fuel economy go downhill a bit, and it might be a little odd to get used to, but this all depends on how high the stall speed is.
I was thinking it wont do a whole lot, seeing as how literally 2 months after that, I will be doing heads, cams, and the rest of the crazy stuff i wanna do to her...
Makes sense to me. All too often people will do a mad beginner build on the engine, and neglect the axles, or tranny.
Second question, will I notice a difference from the stock ratios to the 3.69:1. I was told they will help with acceleration, and also help doing burnouts, because when I floor it, the tires will want to burn out until they are track temperature.. (seeing as how I am also getting an LSD from intense)
That depends on the stock ratio, and the ratios for each gear in the transmission. Altering the final drive to a higher ratio will provide more top end speed, however you need the engine power to back it up. A lower ratio will typically accellerate faster, however the gears will go by quicker. Again this also depends on the ratios of each gear over stock, and how much power is applied, and of course, the driver. As for burnouts, a smaller ratio will typically require less power to spin, making burnouts easier. Upgrading to a high stall torque converter might help as well as from what I understand, if yor converter now grabs at 3000rpm, it will recieve more of the engines power then at 1900rpm.. Typically..
Getting the tires sticky depends on the tire itself. A drag radial will heat up much faster then a standard road tire, and provide maxmimum traction for that specific application. And slicks will provide even more, but only for that specific task. Also the compounds of the tire, will also determine its tempurature and longetivity.
I really dont know alot about a transaxle, so any ideas anyone can contribute will help greatly!
As always, thanks in advance everyone.
-Keegan
So, because there STILL isn't a section for drivetrain (sigh.. ) I decided to pose this here.
I am going to bite the bullet, and buy the INTENSE HD Tranny. With all the bells and whistles. New higher stall torque converter, new everything, all hardened, and built to be abused.
So, with that, comes two questions I am HOPING that a drivetrain junkie might be able to answer.
This is going to be my first mod, mainly so that I can have a good base to build all of my crazy mods off of.
Abseloutly. This is an excellent Idea.
That being said, when I have a new 3.69:1 gear ratio tranny put in with a higher stall torque converter, what kind of damage will i be looking at on my engine? if any?
I dont really forsee much, if any damage from upgrading the transmission. The higher stall speed of the torque converter may make your fuel economy go downhill a bit, and it might be a little odd to get used to, but this all depends on how high the stall speed is.
I was thinking it wont do a whole lot, seeing as how literally 2 months after that, I will be doing heads, cams, and the rest of the crazy stuff i wanna do to her...
Makes sense to me. All too often people will do a mad beginner build on the engine, and neglect the axles, or tranny.
Second question, will I notice a difference from the stock ratios to the 3.69:1. I was told they will help with acceleration, and also help doing burnouts, because when I floor it, the tires will want to burn out until they are track temperature.. (seeing as how I am also getting an LSD from intense)
That depends on the stock ratio, and the ratios for each gear in the transmission. Altering the final drive to a higher ratio will provide more top end speed, however you need the engine power to back it up. A lower ratio will typically accellerate faster, however the gears will go by quicker. Again this also depends on the ratios of each gear over stock, and how much power is applied, and of course, the driver. As for burnouts, a smaller ratio will typically require less power to spin, making burnouts easier. Upgrading to a high stall torque converter might help as well as from what I understand, if yor converter now grabs at 3000rpm, it will recieve more of the engines power then at 1900rpm.. Typically..
Getting the tires sticky depends on the tire itself. A drag radial will heat up much faster then a standard road tire, and provide maxmimum traction for that specific application. And slicks will provide even more, but only for that specific task. Also the compounds of the tire, will also determine its tempurature and longetivity.
I really dont know alot about a transaxle, so any ideas anyone can contribute will help greatly!
As always, thanks in advance everyone.
-Keegan
#3
07-25-2007, 07:10 PM
RE: New HD Transmission...
Hi Keegan,
[align=center][/align]I hope the below link, gives you a contact of a person that's
[align=center][/align]has the intense equipment. He's selling, but I'm sure that another
[align=center][/align]Car `Nut would be glad to answer your quesitions. I would
[align=center][/align]email him.
[align=center][/align][align=center][/align]99 GTP
[/align][:-]
[/align]Bragging Rights
Quarter Mile
[align=center][/align][align=center][/align]Quarter Mile
11.3 sec @ 120.9 mph
est. HP 418 hp
est. wt.3500 lbs
[align=center][/align]
expand
[align=center][/align][align=center]This is my 1999 Grand Prix GTP 4dr Please check page 3 for recent pictures. Im in alittle slump and needing to sell the car. Asking Price is $21,000 obo. And that is less than it would cost for someone to buy just the engine parts and transmission. [/align][align=center][/align][align=center]Engine/Drivetrain Intense Racing race short block 0.010 bored 8.0:1 compression
Total Seal chromoly rings
Diamond forged 19.5cc dished pistons with coated skirts and ceramic coated tops
Rollmaster double roller timing chain
Harland Sharp 1.60:1 full roller rocker arms
Custom 1pc Flexplate
Ported and polished Eaton M90 Supercharger with 2.80" Pulley
Intense PCM with IAT timing flash
180 degree intense drilled thermistat
85MM LS6 Throttle body
Delphi MAF off the LS6
L32 hot forged rods
cleviet 77 tri metal bearings
65lb injectors
ARP studs and bolts
Stage 2 Blower Cam, duration @ .050": 214º/222º, lobe lifts: .332"/.338", valve lifts with 1.60:1 rocker arms: .531"/.541", lobe separation angle: 115º, intake centerline: 111º
Comp Cams VSS-130 valve springs
Manley titanium retainers
Stage 3 Intense aluminum cnc port and polished heads
Manley Severe Duty Generation II stainless Valves with 4 angle valvejob
Cometic MLS Head Gaskets
Intense oil restricted 5/16 chromoly pushrods
Comp Cams "OE R Series" Hydraulic Roller Lifters
ATI super dampner
MSD Blaster coil packs
MSD 8.5MM wires
Intense intercooler
Fenderwall Intake kit
4T65E-HD transmission with third gen limited slip differential
ATI Tree Master torque converter with 3500 stall
TransGo shift kit
ZZP input and output shaft
B&M transmission cooler
SLP Headers
3" stainless steel Borla Exhaust
Ramdon technologies super high flow cat. [/align][align=center]Suspension
Koni Adjustable coil overs
GMPP lowering coils
RAT front and rear strut bars
RAT swaybars
14" cross drilled - slotted rotors and 4 piston calipers from 4th gen camaro. [/align][align=center]Rims/Tires 245/45/17 Nitto NT 555 extreme ZR radials
American Racing Series 95 17x8.5 rims. [/align][align=center][b]Appearence
Billet grill inserts
Completely shaved body
clear front side markers
Smoked tail light lens
Varad LED underglow kit
Tinted Windo
#4
07-25-2007, 08:29 PM
RE: New HD Transmission...
Just FYI, the standard HD tranny that is in your car is good up to 400 HP and 350 torque. Once you break that, then it is time to upgrade the tranny. It's a good idea to get it done then as before hand it is really an unnecessary mod. Last thing you want is to drop that kind of ching and then get cracked by a dumptruck blowing a light.
As for the high gear ratio, it will definately help in acceleration, but limit your top end. This is really good if you plan to drag with it. You might want to consider a Redline or a Mantis transmission as well.
As for the high gear ratio, it will definately help in acceleration, but limit your top end. This is really good if you plan to drag with it. You might want to consider a Redline or a Mantis transmission as well.
#5
07-26-2007, 12:51 AM
RE: New HD Transmission...
ORIGINAL: 04 Intimidator
Just FYI, the standard HD tranny that is in your car is good up to 400 HP and 350 torque. Once you break that, then it is time to upgrade the tranny. It's a good idea to get it done then as before hand it is really an unnecessary mod. Last thing you want is to drop that kind of ching and then get cracked by a dumptruck blowing a light.
As for the high gear ratio, it will definately help in acceleration, but limit your top end. This is really good if you plan to drag with it. You might want to consider a Redline or a Mantis transmission as well.
Just FYI, the standard HD tranny that is in your car is good up to 400 HP and 350 torque. Once you break that, then it is time to upgrade the tranny. It's a good idea to get it done then as before hand it is really an unnecessary mod. Last thing you want is to drop that kind of ching and then get cracked by a dumptruck blowing a light.
As for the high gear ratio, it will definately help in acceleration, but limit your top end. This is really good if you plan to drag with it. You might want to consider a Redline or a Mantis transmission as well.
As far as being hit by a dump truck...
I'm in the military. I fix helicopters, and then fly in them at 2500 feet at 170 miles an hour most days, overseas in a hostile territory. If THAT isn't dangerous, then I don't know what is. Life is uncertain, and everything is way too short. So to justify not spending money because I might get hit by a huge Mack is almost ridiculous, no offense.
And when you say " Limit your top end" do you really think it will change it that much? Are we talking like, 140 miles an hour, a speed that I will never reach? Hyperfox stated that it will increase my top end speed, so which would be more true?
Hey Hyperfox, thanks also for your info and support. It helped.
And Space, as always, a pleasure. That guy had to sell his, but my goal is to keep mine so that when I get married and have kids, they'll get to drive it.
Thanks guys!
-Keegan
#6
07-26-2007, 02:11 AM
RE: New HD Transmission...
Ill actually correct that myself. I wasnt correct.. been a long night.
The idea I was always taught for drag racing is this: "The idea is to get themaximum amount ofpower to the ground as fast as possible and as long as possible, to increase your acceleration rate."
Lets say your engine provides its maximum horspower and torque at 4000 rpm. The idea is to get to 4000 rpm as fast as possible and to shift gears in a way to keep itat that 4000 rpm so that you are putting the engines maximum power to the ground throughout all the gears, all the way to the finish line.
Lets take the most basic of all transmissions, a rwd differential. Yes it is not a transmission and wouldnt work, and no it isnt howgear ratios work totally. I know a 4.10 ratio has a ring gear with 41 teeth by a pinion gear with 10 teethbut follow with me.
Now imagine you hooked the driveshaft directly to the engine, and hooked the other to the differential, fitted with 4:1 ratio. The driveshaft would turn 4 times to rotate the tires once.
Now if we changed the ratio to 3.5:1 the driveshaft would turn 3 and a half times, and the tires would rotate once.
A car fitted with the 4:1 ratio would accelerate quicker, but have less of a top speed, where as a car fitted with the 3.5:1 would accelerate slower, but carry a higher top speed. Intimidator was right about this. Good thing he picked up on it. lol..
So chances are your not going to break 130mph on a 1/4 mile anyway so sacrificing the top speed for accelleration the higher gear ratio may provide.
Again this depends on each gears individual ratio,the final drive ratio, and even your wheel size.. It extremely complex and is better off left to a transmission professional, as there are tons of factors that will be involved...
I think I got that right?
As for the transmission replacement in general. Id be curious to see exactly how much abuse the stock one could take, then replace it. I couldnt find any spec sheets on the HD trans for how much she can handle.
The idea I was always taught for drag racing is this: "The idea is to get themaximum amount ofpower to the ground as fast as possible and as long as possible, to increase your acceleration rate."
Lets say your engine provides its maximum horspower and torque at 4000 rpm. The idea is to get to 4000 rpm as fast as possible and to shift gears in a way to keep itat that 4000 rpm so that you are putting the engines maximum power to the ground throughout all the gears, all the way to the finish line.
Lets take the most basic of all transmissions, a rwd differential. Yes it is not a transmission and wouldnt work, and no it isnt howgear ratios work totally. I know a 4.10 ratio has a ring gear with 41 teeth by a pinion gear with 10 teethbut follow with me.
Now imagine you hooked the driveshaft directly to the engine, and hooked the other to the differential, fitted with 4:1 ratio. The driveshaft would turn 4 times to rotate the tires once.
Now if we changed the ratio to 3.5:1 the driveshaft would turn 3 and a half times, and the tires would rotate once.
A car fitted with the 4:1 ratio would accelerate quicker, but have less of a top speed, where as a car fitted with the 3.5:1 would accelerate slower, but carry a higher top speed. Intimidator was right about this. Good thing he picked up on it. lol..
So chances are your not going to break 130mph on a 1/4 mile anyway so sacrificing the top speed for accelleration the higher gear ratio may provide.
Again this depends on each gears individual ratio,the final drive ratio, and even your wheel size.. It extremely complex and is better off left to a transmission professional, as there are tons of factors that will be involved...
I think I got that right?
As for the transmission replacement in general. Id be curious to see exactly how much abuse the stock one could take, then replace it. I couldnt find any spec sheets on the HD trans for how much she can handle.
#7
07-26-2007, 04:51 AM
RE: New HD Transmission...
Excellent, thanks for clearing that up. Though it is a bit confusing, I followed. Thanks Hyperfox and 04Intimidator!
As far as the abuse, I really was thinking the same thing, except I can't justify taking a chance of being on a road flooring it, with the old tranny, whether it be a street race, or on the track makin a run, and me snapping the input shaft, or breaking one of the hard internals, and being stranded, and THEN making the investment into the tranny. However, I am very indecisive when it comes to keeping the old transaxle. I was thinking that I would get the new one installed, and pay the core charge of 250, and keep it as a spare in my house...
I hate to part with 4250 and another 250 to install it, but honestly, I am scared that the power I will be running will kill my Tranny, thus, me buying a new one.
As far as the abuse, I really was thinking the same thing, except I can't justify taking a chance of being on a road flooring it, with the old tranny, whether it be a street race, or on the track makin a run, and me snapping the input shaft, or breaking one of the hard internals, and being stranded, and THEN making the investment into the tranny. However, I am very indecisive when it comes to keeping the old transaxle. I was thinking that I would get the new one installed, and pay the core charge of 250, and keep it as a spare in my house...
I hate to part with 4250 and another 250 to install it, but honestly, I am scared that the power I will be running will kill my Tranny, thus, me buying a new one.
#8
07-27-2007, 07:09 AM
RE: New HD Transmission...
[align=center]Keegan, I thought you may be interested in the below sites.[/align][align=center]
[/align][align=center][:-]Click `it 2 check `it [:-][/align][align=center]http://www.powertraincontrolsolutions.com/[/align][align=center][/align][align=center]
[/align]
[align=center]
[/align]
[align=center][:-]Click `it 2 check `it [:-]Once connected, check site menu [:-][/align][align=center]http://www.gm.com/automotive/gmpower...bout/index.htm[/align]
[/align][align=center][:-]Click `it 2 check `it [:-][/align][align=center]http://www.powertraincontrolsolutions.com/[/align][align=center][/align][align=center][/align][/align]
#9
07-27-2007, 11:02 AM
RE: New HD Transmission...
well I emailed the company asking what the GM specs on speed ratings and hp and torque ratings are on their engines. thanks for the links Space!
#10
08-01-2007, 09:26 PM
RE: New HD Transmission...
My bad, I meant 300HP not 400.
GM doesn't have anything posted this is going from others that race their cars on ClubGP and MyMonte. Also ZZPerformance sent me an email on upgrading the transmission.
Here is what they sent in the email regarding the transmission:
To go over 300WHP the first thing you should think about is the transmission. To keep it reliable long term you will need our performance transmission with converter, 4340 input shaft, single chain conversion and 245mm flex plate. Total cost on that trans is $3065. That will give you a transmission that will hold up to continued abuse with mid three hundred WHP.
GM doesn't have anything posted this is going from others that race their cars on ClubGP and MyMonte. Also ZZPerformance sent me an email on upgrading the transmission.
Here is what they sent in the email regarding the transmission:
To go over 300WHP the first thing you should think about is the transmission. To keep it reliable long term you will need our performance transmission with converter, 4340 input shaft, single chain conversion and 245mm flex plate. Total cost on that trans is $3065. That will give you a transmission that will hold up to continued abuse with mid three hundred WHP.