Opinion Needed: L67 Top Swap vs. L36 Bolt-on kit - Page 2 - Monte Carlo Forum - Monte Carlo Enthusiast Forums


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  #11  
Old 06-23-2014, 09:48 PM
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L67's take up the same amount of space as L36's. They fit quite easily in a 5th gen. It's when you see an L67 in a Cavalier that you begin to wonder about the laws of physics.
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  #12  
Old 06-23-2014, 10:00 PM
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Haha I hope I never see that. I wonder why GM had them in Pontiacs but never wanted to put them in the Montes? I mean how can you let a Z34 have a smaller motor than a Grand Prix lol? I feel like Supercharged the 5th gens would have really sold a lot easier.
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  #13  
Old 06-24-2014, 12:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Griffindor View Post
Is it just me but can you really even fit a supercharged l67 in our 5th gen montes? I mean I was looking at my engine bay the other day and I was like dang with that supercharger mounted on the passenger side of the engine it would be one heck of a tight fit. Maybe that's why GM offered the 90's Pontiacs supercharged and not the 5th gen montes. Maybe the Pontiacs had a little bit more room?
It does, it really doesn't take up much room. I can see how you would think that though but the supercharger isn't that big.

As far as the room, they were all the same and GM didn't start supercharging the 3800 until 1991. The Grand Prix wasn't supercharged until after 1997. Before that, the Grand Prix had the LQ1 3.4 DOHC engine (what the 95-97 Monte Z34's had). This was more of a GM thing. Remember that in the 80's, only Buick got the 3.8 (what was later to become the 3800). It wasn't until 1986 when the H body came to be that GM fully adopted corporate engines and used the 3.8 in the Bonneville and 88 LSS. It took em a while to realize that the engine choice didn't compete with the other corporate siblings.

From what I gather, the logic was that the 5th gen was a stopgap for the 6th gen because the Lumina came out so late compared to the other W siblings which came out in 1988. The Lumina started sales in 1991 IIRC. 1996, all cars had to have driver's and passenger's side airbags and with the Lumina the car never had the provision for one. Apparently, they found it easier to redesign the Lumina for 1995 on the 1991 chassis than to retrofit airbags in the same manner the other 3 W's got the stuff. If anything, I don't think Chevrolet was supposed to get a W car considering the whole fiasco with the Lumina. What's pretty interesting is that the 2nd generation of W body cars came out in 1997 so why the Lumina/Monte Carlo wasn't developed with the other W body cars is beyond me.

So to answer your question, about why Pontiac got their 3800 S/C'ed and the Monte didn't, it goes back to the history of the chassis. The chassis wasn't really meant to be used with the 3800 outside of Buick which rarely used a 60 degree V6 (which at the time was considered a Chevy engine). The platform had gotten its own engine the infamous twin cam known as the LQ1. It was (and still is) a big pain to work on so it never sold the way GM hoped. Ironically, the engine fell into popularity for the Fiero, while GM hoped it would be an alternative to the 3800. The 3800 and the 3.4 twin cam put out very identical horsepower and torque ratings. It simply never caught on so it got discontinued in 1997 when the Grand Prix, the Regal and the new Intrigue (replacing the Cutlass Supreme) were ready for the market. At this point, the only one using it was the Monte Carlo (and maybe Lumina?) so it was cheaper to slap the 3800 in the Monte Carlo than keep building the LQ1. At this point, it's 1998 and the 6th gen Monte Carlo is almost ready, so there was no point of re-engineering the 5th gen for 2 years. The Lumina got the N/A 3800 for police duty after the demise of the Caprice so it was the cheapest option.

The real question is why GM didn't offer the S/C in the Monte Carlo until 2004. GM really dropped the ball twice on Chevrolet's W body car. 3 times if you consider that the Lumina was extremely late, the car only sold for 4 years (1991-1994) while its siblings sold for 8 or 9 years (1988-1996. 1997 in the case of the Cutlass Supreme) But if you really think about it the Monte Carlo got a recycled chassis instead of a new one. This is why a lot of people call the Monte Carlo and Lumina twins W body 1.5 or 1.5 W instead of 1G W or 2G W. GM didn't want to spend money on a design that was never meant to live until 2000... which is interesting that the Regal didn't get S/C either until 1997 so it goes to show the design that the Monte Carlo was on was never meant to get a supercharged engine.

Last edited by Nas Escobar; 06-24-2014 at 12:11 AM.
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  #14  
Old 06-24-2014, 02:06 AM
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And actually I have more room in the engine bay with the l67 in my 97 monte ls to work on it than i did with the 60*
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  #15  
Old 06-24-2014, 10:09 AM
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Originally Posted by turbo monte View Post
You can swap a hd diff into a sd trans no issue. Both diffs are the same gearing.


hmm, maybe i was thinking about the 4t60e trans and not the 4t65's
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  #16  
Old 08-23-2016, 09:05 PM
 
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Default 3800 Series 2 rebuild

That's kind of strange I have a 1998 Lumina 3800 Series 2 LTZ package I was going to use it to rebuild my 2001 Monte Carlo High Sport SS package I just need a top end for my Monte Carlo I've been wanting to go supercharger conversion I appreciate some ideas. I'm liking the l67 top swap I still have the Lumina LTZ package motor too. Thanks
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  #17  
Old 08-23-2016, 10:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Griffindor View Post
Is it just me but can you really even fit a supercharged l67 in our 5th gen montes? I mean I was looking at my engine bay the other day and I was like dang with that supercharger mounted on the passenger side of the engine it would be one heck of a tight fit. Maybe that's why GM offered the 90's Pontiacs supercharged and not the 5th gen montes. Maybe the Pontiacs had a little bit more room?
some Pontiac GP models moved the battery from under the hood to under back seat
that is some creative idea lol
the SC on other 3800's is very low profile and not much taller than the beauty cover on the NA

I am learning and saving

Last edited by shawn parker; 08-23-2016 at 10:12 PM.
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  #18  
Old 08-25-2016, 07:50 PM
 
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Default L36 to l67 top?

L67 top end is what I'm wanting to do find one in the wrecking yard.i cause I don't won't to swap motors just the top end from one to the other not really worried about trans .I'm only looking for 340-375 whp @ the wheels. Looking into 1.7:1 rockers and using 125# or 130 cable springs. Would like to use a cam .not crazy but has noticeable idle. I don't won't the conversion kit., I should be able to get l67 heads intake TB ,s/c coil pack and all pulley and have my tune done for way less the conversion kit sell for. I'm planning this for a 2001 l36/ block w/l67 top Monte Carlo SS build. Other pointers??...
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  #19  
Old 08-25-2016, 09:47 PM
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As far as the question of "why did the Pontiac have the 3800 before the Monte?" Keep in mind that the Bonneville (which had the 3800 before any of the W body cars got it in 97) is on a different body. There was actually only 1 year that the Monte did NOT have the L36 and the W-body brethren did. Now, as to why it wasn't until 04 that the Monte and Impala got the L67, that's beyond me. In 04, the Grand Prix went to the Series 3 motors to coincide with the redesign, although all L67s built in 04 and 05 got L32 internals, just the had the Gen III M90 as opposed to the Gen V. It's almost like GM held the Chevrolet W-bodies back from the Buick and Pontiac brethren. In 06 of course, Buick and Pontiac stayed with the 3800 until it was discontinued after 09 (08 in the case of Pontiac when the GP was killed off), whereas Chevrolet went back to a 60* V6 that they eventually forced onto the rest of the GM divisions.

I'd go top swap myself. The ZZP kit is just too rich for my blood. I'd love to have an L67 Monte again, but everyone wants too much for them in my neck of the woods, so I've thought about picking up an L36 and doing it myself. It'll be a lot simpler overall than making the 4L80E fit in my 78 Camaro, so I think I can handle it, especially since I'm more familiar with 3800s than I am small block V8s
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  #20  
Old 02-10-2017, 08:22 PM
 
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Reading threw this post I got a lot of info, and some understanding . I have a 2000 MC/SS with the L36. I've been back and fourth on what to do to upgrade my engine. first thought about swapping engine and trans and make it supercharged, because that's what I wanted but couldn't pass up the price I got this for. I have a few issues now,( see why I got it at the price now). Engine has 234,833 on it and I need to replace upper intake do to leak. which lead me to consider top swap, but I also have a trans code p1811 max adapt . not sure if its due to another engine issues .so that got me thinking engine and trans swap. not sure what would be best at this point. I like the idea of top swap but unsure of exactly what it concise of.In need of advice, Trying to make a parts list as well.
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3800, bottom, carlo, cheap, cons, conversion, differences, kit, l36, l67, m90, monte, pros, ss, swap, top

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